Reply to: Best approach with Agents re: applying for roles?

[malvolio]

Seems from what's ben said by responders that this is a bit of a mixed bag.

I was correct to some extent with my earlier suspicions. Today I was rejected for a BPR/Process role within Insurance. I have some, but limited, experience of this market place, despite years of BPR/Change experience.

I quizzed the Agent by email and he was kind enough to reply (so some credit there), and explained that he had indeed received c.100 applications, and chose 3 only who had extensive Insurance sector experience. The client had expressed a desire for Insurance experienced candidates, although this hadn't appeared in the advert.

I guess part of the problem is that clients from specific industry sectors don't recognise that there is great value to be had by hiring non-industry sector consultants, and thereby get a 'fresh look', as opposed to 'more of the same'.

To my mind BPR/Lean and Change consultancy fits across differing industries, but getting end clients to appreciate that is really difficult, especially when there is an Agent between them and the consultants.

Tell me about it. I have 15 years senior freelance consultancy in all aspects of Service Management across a dozen market verticals. I've kept working but over the years I've decided I won't ever get work in Finance - despite having worked for four different banks - so have stopped even trying. I got shut out of public sector roles for lack of security clearance (but am currently working for the Welsh Government...). I've been rejected for airline, logistics and warehouse roles for lack of sector experience.

Oddly enough, when I get to interview, I usually get the gig...

Thing is, none of my considerable skills are industry specific and are fully transferable. Whether it's the agencies or the clients I have no idea, but all it says to me is that too many hirers really don't have the faintest idea what they're doing.

But if you're going to beat the system, you absolutely have to work on the CV and customise in detail for each role. If it's not a 100% match, it's going nowhere.

[SteelyDan]

Seems from what's ben said by responders that this is a bit of a mixed bag.

I was correct to some extent with my earlier suspicions. Today I was rejected for a BPR/Process role within Insurance. I have some, but limited, experience of this market place, despite years of BPR/Change experience.

I quizzed the Agent by email and he was kind enough to reply (so some credit there), and explained that he had indeed received c.100 applications, and chose 3 only who had extensive Insurance sector experience. The client had expressed a desire for Insurance experienced candidates, although this hadn't appeared in the advert.

I guess part of the problem is that clients from specific industry sectors don't recognise that there is great value to be had by hiring non-industry sector consultants, and thereby get a 'fresh look', as opposed to 'more of the same'.

To my mind BPR/Lean and Change consultancy fits across differing industries, but getting end clients to appreciate that is really difficult, especially when there is an Agent between them and the consultants.

[TheFaQQer]

Gig before this one, the agent rang me about my CV I'd sent.

I had no recollection of having sent my CV in, and looking at my email, I didn't send it in at all.

Got a year's work out of it, though

[Zippy]

It's a funny old game. This time last year I couldn't get the time of day out of the buggers. This year has been completely different and I haven't applied for any roles, just waited for the phone to ring. Got some short pieces of work with no interview and the current role with a five min phone interview.
I don't really know why things have been so different but maybe (just maybe) it's that decent agents with real jobs will actually seek out the right person.
I didn't change my cv much, btw.

[CheeseSlice]

Personally, as a general rule, I never call an agency re: a role; if they are interested in your CV they will contact you.

I think this comes down to the different ways our individual markets work.

My market works mostly like this and more often than not the roles never actually make it onto the boards. Although from reading this forum a lot of people have to chase roles on job boards to get hired, rather than be chased by the market. I guess it depends on the numbers of candidates and roles, market saturation, etc.

[SueEllen]

If you haven't heard anything in 24 hours, give up an move on. The job will have gone.

Not necessarily.

3 of my last 4 contracts took ages to materialise.

However it is a case of fire and forget as some clients and agencies start looking for people before a role is even signed off. Some of those roles never materialise, while others get signed of months later...........

[BlasterBates]

Personally, as a general rule, I never call an agency re: a role; if they are interested in your CV they will contact you.

...often about 10 seconds after you've hit the send button. Quite amazing how quick agents can be.

[TheFaQQer]

Not sure whether he's still interested, but at one stage DodgyAgent was offering to have a quick look over people's CVs from here and provide some pointers.

****er never got back to me, though

[NervousRexx]

I think this is reasonable if the agent hasn't put their phone number on the advert, but that does mean that your CV has to work even harder to make it to the top of the pile and has to be darn good.

I see where you're coming from but always got the runaround from the agent when I used to chase and not sure if it made any difference in terms of getting to the top of the pile. If a role is of particular interest, I'll pop on a short covering letter.

[cojak]

When I was new to contracting over 10 years ago, I quickly learned chasing agencies is a waste of time. Sorry to be blunt. Maybe revamp the CV and get some advice.
Good luck.

I think this is reasonable if the agent hasn't put their phone number on the advert, but that does mean that your CV has to work even harder to make it to the top of the pile and has to be darn good.

[NervousRexx]

NervousRex, I wanted to be a bit more proactive than your approach

When I was new to contracting over 10 years ago, I quickly learned chasing agencies is a waste of time. Sorry to be blunt. Maybe revamp the CV and get some advice.
Good luck.

[SteelyDan]

Thanks to you both for the replies.

I think the CV is fine, but wondering if Agents just sift thru until they have 3 or so, then bin the rest? I was thinking a call to them might lift my details to the top?

NervousRex, I wanted to be a bit more proactive than your approach, but owing to the above, was wondering if my CV was getting lost in a pile of 'many', or discarded without being viewed.

Ironically, I have had calls from Agents today for roles which I haven't applied for, and for which I know I am not suitable at all! Weird.

[malvolio]

Ueual process...


Email them the CV updated to emphasise everything intheir original advert and a covering note explaining why you're perfect fo the role. They can't think for themselves, so be literal. For example, if they want a Project Manager and you're a Programme Manager, clearly you can't do project management as far as they're concerned, so align the job titles

Wait 10 minutes

Phone them up to check they've got it.

Three things happen, in descending order of probability:

1. They're not a their desk (70%). Leave a message and they won't call back so give up and go on to the next role.

2. You get some junior drone who isn't authorsied to go the toilet by themselves (25%). They may talk to you, but will be incapable of then explaining that conversation to someone with authority to do something about it, much less expalin why you're a good fit.

3. You get to talk to the agent (5% with a 50% chance they're incompetent or have already filled their quota). Make the most of it.

Don't repeat (1) more than once. If they think you're any good they'll call you.

To avoid (2) check the contact in LinkedIn. Don't even bother calling someone with three months experience who was previously selling sports goods. (i.e. about 90% of them)

If you get (3), make sure you've go the story straight.

If you haven't heard anything in 24 hours, give up an move on. The job will have gone.


Thing is, agencies are target-driven sales organsations. We are mere interruptions and talking to us means less time talking to people with money to spend. They fill roles by box-ticking, not by applying intelligence; more than a few use software to pick the CVs for review. It's carp, but we have to live with it. Just keep buggering on.

[Tufty]

I found this as well when I started applying for contract roles via agencies. There were a lot of roles I thought I would be perfect for, but was obviously not getting past the CV review stage. I used the links on the right hand side for first timers to update my CV to reflect a contractor CV (very different to my permanent CV) and it had an immediate impact on agents contacting me and putting me forwards for positions.

Personally I preferred my previous permanent CV in terms of content and layout, but I think the key is to make it really easy for the person looking at it to know what you can offer and what you've achieved really quickly. Most of the agencies that phoned me back after I'd submitted the new CV called within about an hour of me submitting it, which was a nice change to me constantly chasing agents.

A lot of the roles advertised via the on-line agencies tend to have the contacts email address in there too - if they do, I've had more luck sending a direct email than applying via the on-line site ... but maybe that's just coincidence.

[NervousRexx]

Some of them don't even provide a phone number

Personally, as a general rule, I never call an agency re: a role; if they are interested in your CV they will contact you.