Agency deferring to the Client's Standard Terms

[UsrBinPRL]

Hmmm. Dont like this minimum 8 hours crap.....

Seems to be scope here for the client to take the piss somewhat. Thats what I dont like about daily rates.....

Trouble is agency dont mind if you end up working 15 hours a day. They get a happy client who thinks they're getting their moneys worth out of you and they get their cut all the same. Only one who suffers is you - same money but working yourself to an early grave.........

Personally, I dont mind working extra when situation dictates but not regularly or excessively.

My thoughts exactly. I'll happily do 15 hour days but one of two things have to happen in return, either a 15 hour day means a 1 or 2 hour day later in the contract for the same money or a 15 hour day pays double a normal "professional" day.

UBP

[psychocandy]

Hmmm. Dont like this minimum 8 hours crap.....

Seems to be scope here for the client to take the piss somewhat. Thats what I dont like about daily rates.....

Trouble is agency dont mind if you end up working 15 hours a day. They get a happy client who thinks they're getting their moneys worth out of you and they get their cut all the same. Only one who suffers is you - same money but working yourself to an early grave.........

Personally, I dont mind working extra when situation dictates but not regularly or excessively.

[Pacciae]

Qdos will do a professional review of the contract and if necessary get amendments for you. Qdos Consulting - Taxation and VAT - Employment Law - Insurance - IR35

[northernladuk]

Bauer and Cottrell did a 24 hour turnaround for me when I needed one reviewed in a hurry, but that was a couple of years ago now. Worth giving them a ring ansd asking.

If you abuse Kate's knowledge in the forum she tends to respond pretty quickly. Ask Mal

[nomadd]

Agreed

And a "Professional Working Day" is you doing any work for them in a 24 hour period and billing them a fixed amount. It is not shorthand for "You will work a minimum 8 hours a day plus up to a further 16 hours for free".

Or tell them they are being utterly unreasonable and that you decide how many hours you need to do the job, and walk away.

This^

My current gig is an IB, and I only get paid for 8 hours/day. So I do exactly 8 hours/day (and I made this point clear at the interview - NO UNPAID OVERTIME - having got into an argument with a prior IB over the same issue.)

[DaveB]

This has always been my reason for not taking daily rates and negotiating a slightly lower hourly rate with the agreement that all hours are billed and paid. Recently this has proved more difficult to achieve. I've had in the past clients wanting 10, 12 even 14 hour days, including weekends and bank holidays. Fine by me on an hourly rate, not a chance on a daily based around 8.

Any recommendations for getting the contract(s) reviewed? Have used Accountax recently and the review was very professional but a little expensive and took five and a half working days to complete. As ever, the client is looking for a very swift start but it took me two days to get the agency to agree to opting in. Every scare story you can imagine was sent my way along with the old line of "well everybody else has always wanted to opt out!"

UBP

Bauer and Cottrell did a 24 hour turnaround for me when I needed one reviewed in a hurry, but that was a couple of years ago now. Worth giving them a ring ansd asking.

[UsrBinPRL]

And a "Professional Working Day" is you doing any work for them in a 24 hour period and billing them a fixed amount. It is not shorthand for "You will work a minimum 8 hours a day plus up to a further 16 hours for free".

This has always been my reason for not taking daily rates and negotiating a slightly lower hourly rate with the agreement that all hours are billed and paid. Recently this has proved more difficult to achieve. I've had in the past clients wanting 10, 12 even 14 hour days, including weekends and bank holidays. Fine by me on an hourly rate, not a chance on a daily based around 8.

Any recommendations for getting the contract(s) reviewed? Have used Accountax recently and the review was very professional but a little expensive and took five and a half working days to complete. As ever, the client is looking for a very swift start but it took me two days to get the agency to agree to opting in. Every scare story you can imagine was sent my way along with the old line of "well everybody else has always wanted to opt out!"

UBP

[malvolio]

I'd say get a company to review it who will negotiate on your behalf, that sounds rubbish.

Agreed

And a "Professional Working Day" is you doing any work for them in a 24 hour period and billing them a fixed amount. It is not shorthand for "You will work a minimum 8 hours a day plus up to a further 16 hours for free".

Or tell them they are being utterly unreasonable and that you decide how many hours you need to do the job, and walk away.

[cojak]

I'd say get a company to review it who will negotiate on your behalf, that sounds rubbish.

[UsrBinPRL]

Hi all. I'm a little I haven't seen this before so I'm asking for opinions. I do have a second option so walking away is not the end of the world. Have the following in a contract that's just turned up in my inbox. There's nothing in the contract itself to say if this applies or not but the agent has confirmed that it does and has forwarded a copy of the client's terms.

1.7 For the avoidance of doubt, this Clause 1.7 does not apply if the Client contracts with Pimp for the provision of the Services by the Supplier on Pimp's standard terms of business (or an agreed variation of such terms). If, and only if, the Client contracts with Pimp for the provision of the Services by the Supplier on the Client's standard terms of business (the "Client's Standard Terms") then Pimp shall give the Supplier a copy of the Client's Standard Terms with this Agreement and, to the extent that the Client's Standard Terms are relevant to the Supplier and/or the Consultant, the Supplier shall, and shall procure that the Consultant shall:
1.7.1 comply with the Client's Standard Terms; and
1.7.2 not by act or omission in any way cause Pimp to be in breach of the Client's Standard Terms;

The client's terms include the several things (like no substitution without prior written agreement, no guarantee that agreement will ever be given) including the following

Professional Day: not less than eight (8) hours per day and such longer hours as are reasonably requested each day by Client and are required for the proper performance of the Services.

and

During the Engagement the Supplier shall and shall procure that the Individual shall:
(a)...
(b) unless the Individual is prevented by ill health or accident, devote the Minimum Time Commitment of the Individual’s time to the provision of the Services;

Now, I've never worked on a daily rate (have had hourlies since the late nineties). I suppose my question is, is it normal for the client to be able to request the extra hours and is it seen as a form of direction/control? On an hourly rate it's not an issue as I would work all the allowable hours anyway.

There are mention of deliverables and milestones in the client's contract but they haven't specified what they are and their definition of the service is the equally wooly "C++ development" which as far as I can tell is not what the role is anyway?

So, having spent the last few years generally working directly for the end client or through a very PCG-like contract via a friendly agency, is this normal and OK?

I suppose it does mean that if I go for a contract review both contracts have to be examined.

Any thought most welcome,

UBP.