Reply to: Newbie contractor questions

[psychocandy]

Advice from a person that is also still only in their first contract and was unable to research and understand the very basics of contracting. Nice.

I see MF's point and can also see that it works but I don't agree. Guess it comes down to work ethic. I like to be professional and do the best I can and be proud of my work/ethics. People taking the piss and getting away with it that then affects the way I am percieved or treated pisses me off royally. I am not comfortable shooting from the hip and acting like a cowboy, might cost me a bit due to lost rate increases but it makes me happy. There is of course many shades of grey here, it isn't as black and white as Mal V MF's point but there you go.

1st contract this time around. About 8th total.

[psychocandy]

I trust you take that approach next time a supplier lets you down. "Hey, it doesn't matter, he's only looking after his own business. Why should I care I've only got half a kitchen as long as he's happy...".

Get the point?

True enough. But it happens....

[NotAllThere]

In my experience, the bail-outs are not people I'd want on my project anyway - highly unlikely to be key workers.

Any further in this thread will result in

[malvolio]

Of course there are always shades of grey about these things, but my point is which end of the spectrum should you start from?

One is "I'm a professional and will go out of my way to deliver what I said I would", the other is "I'm looking out for myself first and don't care if I damage someone else's business".

Over the years it's fairly obvious that most of us here go with the first one, whereas the average self-professed expert newbie tends to go with the latter. I wonder at what point the light dawns and they switch sides....

[northernladuk]

Whereas I think the OPs original idea of bailing after a months isnt the best idea I think I do agree with MF here to be honest.

At the end of the day, you look after yourself and no-one else. Like its always said in this forum, you're a business, look after your business.

Whether you choose to jump or not is up to you and you need to think of the implications (if any) for you?

Personally, as well, if you upset an agency, are they really gonna remember 12 months later when there's a nice contract with them and you're perfect. They might have reservations in case you bail again but I cant see them ever refusing you totally.

Advice from a person that is also still only in their first contract and was unable to research and understand the very basics of contracting. Nice.

I see MF's point and can also see that it works but I don't agree. Guess it comes down to work ethic. I like to be professional and do the best I can and be proud of my work/ethics. People taking the piss and getting away with it that then affects the way I am percieved or treated pisses me off royally. I am not comfortable shooting from the hip and acting like a cowboy, might cost me a bit due to lost rate increases but it makes me happy. There is of course many shades of grey here, it isn't as black and white as Mal V MF's point but there you go.

[malvolio]

Whereas I think the OPs original idea of bailing after a months isnt the best idea I think I do agree with MF here to be honest.

At the end of the day, you look after yourself and no-one else. Like its always said in this forum, you're a business, look after your business.

Whether you choose to jump or not is up to you and you need to think of the implications (if any) for you?

Personally, as well, if you upset an agency, are they really gonna remember 12 months later when there's a nice contract with them and you're perfect. They might have reservations in case you bail again but I cant see them ever refusing you totally.

I trust you take that approach next time a supplier lets you down. "Hey, it doesn't matter, he's only looking after his own business. Why should I care I've only got half a kitchen as long as he's happy...".

Get the point?

[psychocandy]

Wow. What an inflated view you have of work.

When you die. No-one will ever say
at your funeral. 'He always saw a contract out'. (shakes head)

Sense of self is more important.

Whereas I think the OPs original idea of bailing after a months isnt the best idea I think I do agree with MF here to be honest.

At the end of the day, you look after yourself and no-one else. Like its always said in this forum, you're a business, look after your business.

Whether you choose to jump or not is up to you and you need to think of the implications (if any) for you?

Personally, as well, if you upset an agency, are they really gonna remember 12 months later when there's a nice contract with them and you're perfect. They might have reservations in case you bail again but I cant see them ever refusing you totally.

[malvolio]

Wow. What an inflated view you have of work.

When you die. No-one will ever say
at your funeral. 'He always saw a contract out'. (shakes head)

Sense of self is more important.

Not what I said. But there's no point in arguing the point.

[Wanderer]

I am not convinced there is enough work for me to add value with current client

What, you've been there almost a month and you've got it all figured out? You've hardly got your feet under the desk. Knuckle down and get some work done.

I will also need to negotiate a notice period, how should I approach this ? I dont know what they will say, i.e 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 day etc but contract says 4 weeks.

They will either say 4 weeks or they will kick your arse out the door and not pay you. Certainly, I'd be inclined to do the latter.

Also, with the new client, the agency is insisting that I have indemnity insurance which I will arrange for, Is there a defacto insurance company that other contractors can recommend ?

1. Go to the search box.
2. Type in "insurance".
3. Read the answers.

Come back and tell us if there is any part of the 101 threads on "insurance" that you DON'T understand.

[MarillionFan]

Balls. He loses becasue he has just become a loser who only thinks oof himself and simply ignored inconvenient truths like contractual obligations and professional behaviour. And that actually demeans us all.
Plus he is still a wet-behind-the-ears sprog who knows f*** all about his trade.
Also, dunno about you but I've had to repair the damage caused to key projects by people walking without notice or planning simply to get some trivial perceived extra benefit somehwere else. "Sorry, Mr Client, your bsuiness change will be delayed two weeks while I source and train someone to replace pltfominc who's walked away in the middle of
something". Try it sometime.

Hope that is clear enough.

Wow. What an inflated view you have of work.

When you die. No-one will ever say
at your funeral. 'He always saw a contract out'. (shakes head)

Sense of self is more important.

[malvolio]

Why does he lose? Explain to me why walking away from a contractor, makes the contractor a loser? I struggle to understand this logic.

He decreases his chances by 1. There are approximately 3500 agencies in the UK. He pisses one off. So that's now 3499/3500 = 99.97%.

Life is too short to do things you do not like. That's permie fear.

Balls. He loses becasue he has just become a loser who only thinks oof himself and simply ignored inconvenient truths like contractual obligations and professional behaviour. And that actually demeans us all.

Plus he is still a wet-behind-the-ears sprog who knows f*** all about his trade.

Also, dunno about you but I've had to repair the damage caused to key projects by people walking without notice or planning simply to get some trivial perceived extra benefit somehwere else. "Sorry, Mr Client, your bsuiness change will be delayed two weeks while I source and train someone to replace pltfominc who's walked away in the middle of something". Try it sometime.

Hope that is clear enough.

[SueEllen]

Hi All

I am still a newbie in the house, but to cut the long story short. I havejust taken the plunge in order to go contracting, currently at a client at the moment but another offer has come through. Now whilst I am relatively new to my current client, just coming up to a month, what is the best way to negotiate an exit whilst not trying to burn bridges as well, as it’s a small world and you just never know? I will also need to negotiate a notice period, how should I approach this ? I dont know what they will say, i.e 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 day etc but contract says 4 weeks.

Use your right of substitution.

If they don't allow you to use this then walk but talk to a solicitor first as it's a major breach of contract.

Also, with the new client, the agency is insisting that I have indemnity insurance which I will arrange for, Is there a defacto insurance company that other contractors can recommend ?

I use an insurance broker who incidentally use the same underwriter as when I use to get my policy with Qdos. To be honest with insurance you need to find out who is the underwriter of the insurance as many insurance companies go under different names and use the same underwriters.

I am the sole director for now, but I don’t know why these questions are being asked. Its working for one of the main financial institutions, and I am thinking in terms of working hours, does this have to be stated in the contract or just with the wording, standard/professional time.

My contracts tend to mention both. Most of them have a glossary of terms used.

[MarillionFan]

Well, no, I can't actually. However, what does your contract say? If it has a notice period, use it. If it has a subs clause, use that as well. You want to play at being a professioanl, act professionally.

Or walk away and pretend it never happened. It's you who loses, nobody else. WGAS.

Why does he lose? Explain to me why walking away from a contractor, makes the contractor a loser? I struggle to understand this logic.

He decreases his chances by 1. There are approximately 3500 agencies in the UK. He pisses one off. So that's now 3499/3500 = 99.97%.

Life is too short to do things you do not like. That's permie fear.

[malvolio]

Ok I understand the concerns, see for me it's like I am not convinced there is enough work for me to add value with current client, although this can always Change but I have been quite proactive in keeping myself busy, on the other hand the new client is a bank and I have always wanted to get into the mix, with enough problems for me to sort out in order to feel like I'm adding value, in my field people like myself who are SMEs are few, instead a lot of cowboys. Without being arrogant, there were 2 contractors before me within a very short space of time, so perhaps you can see things from my perspective.

Well, no, I can't actually. However, what does your contract say? If it has a notice period, use it. If it has a subs clause, use that as well. You want to play at being a professioanl, act professionally.

Or walk away and pretend it never happened. It's you who loses, nobody else. WGAS.

[craig1]

Hi All
I am also being asked the following questions within the questionnaire. OLC means Own Limited Company.

1. Are you the Sole Director of the OLC? Y N
2. Do you own 100% of the shares in the OLC? Y N
3. If no, what is your percentage and who are the other major shareholders? (Detail below)
4. Are you the sole worker providing services through the OLC? Y N
5. If no, please specify details below

I am the sole director for now, but I don’t know why these questions are being asked. Its working for one of the main financial institutions, and I am thinking in terms of working hours, does this have to be stated in the contract or just with the wording, standard/professional time.

Are there any other gotchas that I need to raise with the Agency.

More and more agencies are asking questions like this to partially insure themselves from MSC (Managed Service Company) claims (see the MSC Legislation link on the far right of this page). Some ask many more questions, including questions to find out your level of control of the company, your control of the bank account, your accountant's level of control/influence and so on.

A necessary evil these days. If you're a bog-standard contractor then you'll have no problems but if you've a Plan B or other non-standard (for a contractor) setups then you can have a few issues.

On the time issues, the more precise you can make it the better, anything vague in a contract can come back to plague you. Others will say that you should just go with it but I prefer my contracts to be precisely negotiated.