Reply to: Contract Termination

[northernladuk]

I must say the responses in this forum can be rather harsh at times and I tend to view post now rather than start new threads. At times the responses have an intimidating feel which can be daunting for new members who are seeking advice on issues important to them.

Now where do I remember your name from... ah yes... one of my fave gems...

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ach-month.html

[MiniMani]

I too see contracting as an excellent way to gain new skills, I enjoy the thrill. I think to succeed you need to be "blendable" with the ability to mould in to any environment.


I must say the responses in this forum can be rather harsh at times and I tend to view post now rather than start new threads. At times the responses have an intimidating feel which can be daunting for new members who are seeking advice on issues important to them.

I agree and generally won't post anymore

[northernladuk]

But it's incorrect to say you don't learn things. Even if you've niche skills, different clients could well use different aspects of those skills in different ways.

I will concede this one then. It was based on reading the OP's explaination and to me it is because they were stuck in job going nowhere and looking to learn stuff and change roles to something better. We could continue to argue this type of role changing is difficult in contracting where as adding extra useful skills to your core is but I appear to be wrong. I am not techie so maybe skilling up is different.

Coffee's are on me.

[perplexed]

I read the original post as a troll to be brutally honest.

But it's incorrect to say you don't learn things. Even if you've niche skills, different clients could well use different aspects of those skills in different ways.

Something like Java as well is a pretty broad range as well, especially factoring in other linked technologies. pretty much every cotnract I've been is have used different areas, so I've gained experience more broadly.
Even of JSP, which I f***ing despise with all my body... fiddly web monkey stuff...

I'd however agree that "learning new skills" shouldn't be the primary reason to contract tho.

[StopTheEarthIwantToGetOff]

I would say its not harsh enough, too many contractors seem to treat contracting as a permie job with more pay. Since the recession this has got even more noticable.
The OP is a case in point, complaining that after 3 weeks she's had no training. She has the right idea in that contracting is a good way to get new skills and experiences but the resources, drive and leadership for that need to come from yourself, even if its just buying a book and spending a few evenings a week learning the stuff at home.

The only thing the client ever owes you is payment for the time you've spent working for them (and any expenses incurred depending on the contract).

The OP did not assert that they are a bona-fide contractor.
The client obviously never wanted a bona-fide contractor. They wanted a test drive of a permie.
If the client wanted a contractor they would have simply stated contractor role for 6 months. Not Contract role for 6 months with progression to permanent employment.
No contractor I ever met would go for a role like that. A permie looking for a permie role would.
Additionally I did not state that I thought that the OP should be paid for time they have not worked, because I do not think they should.

[Spacecadet]

I too see contracting as an excellent way to gain new skills, I enjoy the thrill. I think to succeed you need to be "blendable" with the ability to mould in to any environment.


I must say the responses in this forum can be rather harsh at times and I tend to view post now rather than start new threads. At times the responses have an intimidating feel which can be daunting for new members who are seeking advice on issues important to them.

I would say its not harsh enough, too many contractors seem to treat contracting as a permie job with more pay. Since the recession this has got even more noticable.
The OP is a case in point, complaining that after 3 weeks she's had no training. She has the right idea in that contracting is a good way to get new skills and experiences but the resources, drive and leadership for that need to come from yourself, even if its just buying a book and spending a few evenings a week learning the stuff at home.

The only thing the client ever owes you is payment for the time you've spent working for them (and any expenses incurred depending on the contract).

[simplicity]

Tone

I too see contracting as an excellent way to gain new skills, I enjoy the thrill. I think to succeed you need to be "blendable" with the ability to mould in to any environment.


I must say the responses in this forum can be rather harsh at times and I tend to view post now rather than start new threads. At times the responses have an intimidating feel which can be daunting for new members who are seeking advice on issues important to them.

[northernladuk]

Incorrecto!

Ok a slight generalisation but we don't know what the OP has in mind. If you come in as a specialist in a field you do not expect to take a contract and come out with extra marketable skills in another field. If you go in as a Service Delivery Manager and get to do some PM work you will not be able to go work as a PM. I am thinking of this from a permie perspective which is where I think the OP is coming from. Doing a quick course in something will give you a chance to move in to that and learn in permie land but not in contracting land.

You are right when you are talking about delivering your skills to one technology to add your your experience I admit.

Wrong again.

I would argue this in some circumstances. I am in Service Delivery and have been asked to do a couple of other roles that I can port generic skills and knowledge of the project to but if I do this it will break the continuity of my CV and I am not a big fan of lying on CV's. Doing a non SDM role would add extra skills but put a gap in my main focus. A gap that unless I can very cleverly word will put me behind someone who has continued in the same vein. If you take a break from your main focus you could look watered down and may not look as attractive for the next role.

As with everything there is a balance but wanted to make the point particularly as the OP has only come contracting for more skills.

As a regular lurker I generally find your posts to be on the harsh side. Maybe your experience of contracting has been different to mine, but here goes...

Not contracting experience. Just attitude to online media and general out look on fact that you can't get better on good feedback and that washing over the difficult stuff you don't want to talk about again doesn't help progression. Good stuff doesn't need fixing so focus on the bad stuff.

I wasn't attempting to start a huge discussion on the finer points, just trying to point out the OP the original reason isn't as valid as she thinks. We have our own experience and it will be different fields. It was supposed to be a pause for thought not dictating she is wrong so my bad if that is how it came over.

I thought that was one of my nicer posts as well

[StopTheEarthIwantToGetOff]

You don't generally learn new skills in contracting...

Incorrecto!

I would also argue learning new skills will do more damage to your contracting career than good. If you take on extra tasks at a gig you have done a couple of months of it which isn't enough to make it count for your next one and are in danger of watering down your core skill. A jack of all trades isn't ideal for contracting.

Wrong again.

As a regular lurker I generally find your posts to be on the harsh side. Maybe your experience of contracting has been different to mine, but here goes...

One of the reasons I became a contractor was in order to at least have the opportunity to learn new skills and technologies. I find that clients are happy to give me a piece of work doing something new because I have the ability to learn quickly.

How exactly does learning a new skill harm my contracting career? Never been out of work in 9 years (literally finish friday start monday most of the time).

Other than that great post! I am sure the OP is now suitably chastened.

[psychocandy]

He is suggesting (as I read it) that someones reputation will be damaged if they ask others for answers to every question that pops into their head, instead of applying a bit of common sense or doing a bit of research and that you are guilty of this.

Hmmmmm.

[Pondlife]

Whats this got to do with me?

He is suggesting (as I read it) that someones reputation will be damaged if they ask others for answers to every question that pops into their head, instead of applying a bit of common sense or doing a bit of research and that you are guilty of this.

[psychocandy]

Sorry to be harsh but I would argue you have come in to contracting for the wrong reasons and are possibly standing out like a sore thumb for that reason.

You don't generally learn new skills in contracting. You are picked because you are a specialist in your field and can hit the ground running. For this reason you are more likely to get pigeon hole'd rather than learn anything new. I would also argue learning new skills will do more damage to your contracting career than good. If you take on extra tasks at a gig you have done a couple of months of it which isn't enough to make it count for your next one and are in danger of watering down your core skill. A jack of all trades isn't ideal for contracting.

Again, with a harsh head on, I wonder if you not fitting in is because of your permie mentality and mis-understanding of your role as a contractor. Asking about training or other permie type questions can instantly make you look bad. The not training you and dumping work straight on you for example. That is generally how it works. I am being very presumptious here and I am sure some systems need some guidance but to expect training is wrong. You are also expected to hit the ground running. The last line about asking questions also raises concerns. If you expected training and didn't get it I can only imagine you will be asking questions your colleagues don't welcome. Have a look at Psychocandy's profile if you want to see how much damage asking the wrong questions to the wrong people can do.

From what I read and a large dose of pessimism I think you really need to think if contracting is right for you. The signs don't look good but this could be just part of the learning curve. It isn't for everyone though.

If you are happy with it then get your chin up and get back on the boards. This won't be the last knock back or problem but at least you got past your first which is always the worst

Whats this got to do with me?

[northernladuk]

I left my permanent job of 4 years to take on my first ever contract job to gain new experience and new skills, this was very hard to do as I am a person who likes their security but I couldnt miss this opportunity to work for a global company to get that experience behind me...the contract was initally 6months to go perm in 2012. After only 3 weeks into the job, I was informed that they no longer need me and informed my agency that it was because I wasnt fitting in well and my work level was not what they expected? Now they didnt train me for 3 weeks and dumped a whole load of work onto me which I just got on with and asked my colleagues questions once I knew how the policies ran in the department.

Sorry to be harsh but I would argue you have come in to contracting for the wrong reasons and are possibly standing out like a sore thumb for that reason.

You don't generally learn new skills in contracting. You are picked because you are a specialist in your field and can hit the ground running. For this reason you are more likely to get pigeon hole'd rather than learn anything new. I would also argue learning new skills will do more damage to your contracting career than good. If you take on extra tasks at a gig you have done a couple of months of it which isn't enough to make it count for your next one and are in danger of watering down your core skill. A jack of all trades isn't ideal for contracting.

Again, with a harsh head on, I wonder if you not fitting in is because of your permie mentality and mis-understanding of your role as a contractor. Asking about training or other permie type questions can instantly make you look bad. The not training you and dumping work straight on you for example. That is generally how it works. I am being very presumptious here and I am sure some systems need some guidance but to expect training is wrong. You are also expected to hit the ground running. The last line about asking questions also raises concerns. If you expected training and didn't get it I can only imagine you will be asking questions your colleagues don't welcome. Have a look at Psychocandy's profile if you want to see how much damage asking the wrong questions to the wrong people can do.

From what I read and a large dose of pessimism I think you really need to think if contracting is right for you. The signs don't look good but this could be just part of the learning curve. It isn't for everyone though.

If you are happy with it then get your chin up and get back on the boards. This won't be the last knock back or problem but at least you got past your first which is always the worst

[Wanderer]

the contract was initally 6months to go perm in 2012. After only 3 weeks into the job, I was informed that they no longer need me
I am posting this to find out as a contractor is there any legal rights to this early termination?

As Cojak points out the only legal rights you have are those in your contract - 1 month's notice. I wouldn't bother fighting the client - it's unlikely that they will change their mind and it will just cause unpleasantness. Pack up and leave graciously.

Yeah, that's a pretty tough one to take if you were expecting a permie job out of it. The last 3 weeks has been treated as a "no risk" trial period for the client which is a pretty sharp thing for them to do but fully within the law. I don't like these "contract to perm" jobs. Invariably they pay a low rate when contracting rates should be substantially above a permie rate - annual permie salary / 1000 = contracting hourly rate. It sounds like you took the job to try and get the boot in to a big client but now it's all gone a bit wrong.

All I can say is don't not to take it personally to pick yourself up, get back onto the job boards and find a new job. Be it contract or permie, you will have to do some soul searching about that because we can't tell you. Just keep an open mind, if a jucy contract comes up at a proper rate (remember the rate quoted above) then grab it. Otherwise you might be best to go back to permiedom.

You should either work out the month's notice or be sent home and still paid for it so get looking for a new job before your money dries up! Remember that if you are going to go contracting then you need at least 6 months worth of living expenses in the bank to cover for times like this.

[cojak]

If they fulfill their part of the contract and give you a months notice then no, I'm afraid you have no legal rights in this situation. Contractors recognise that there is a risk of being dropped from a contract if things don't work out.

Fitting in is one of the biggest reasons for getting a contract or getting fired from one. The client was being a bit of a coward not admitting that so don't worry about the naff reasons they gave you.

I would find another contract as soon as possible (with or without the promise of permiedom) or go back to your old employer and ask them to take you back.

Because you aren't really a contractor, are you? You jumped into this situation as a means of getting that permie position. And the company realised that too late.*

Being a contractor is a risky life and the difference between us and permies is more than just money and being a hard worker. We have a flexible, can-do attitude that doesn't require a manager telling us what to do and we don't expect training to be done to us. We'll grab everything that we can in the 1St 2 days and be delivering something in the 1st week.

I mean this kindly and without malice. Some people just aren't cut out for contracting. You need to think carefully before making your next step into this kind of thing.

Good Luck to you and I hope you find work soon.