Reply to: How much do you pay your accountant...?

[ratewhore]

You wouldn't take an IR35 specialists advice on how to do your accounts so why are you content with your accountants opinion on your IR35 status? Pass it by QDOS or other proper specialist to take any doubt.

+1 to that. I want my accountant to be good at accounts. If I want IR35 advice, I will speak to an IR35 specialist.

My accountant knows her accounting onions and she charges me around £700 per year...

[blinko]

I think in situations like this, the rates will vary wildly and so will the service given. I recommend finding an accountant that is reliable as a top priority. Because when you can't get hold of your accountant and the deadlines are looming most people wish they paid a little more for a better service!

[northernladuk]

it does help thanks.You got me thinking....
I just went to NW's site and used the IR35 checker. According to it I am out of IR35.
I am aware of IR35 although I am not an expert in it. And I dont need to be, as you said it takes someone who knows what they are doing. First thing this accountant asked me was 'Are you in or out of IR35?' I showed him the clauses of the contract and he agrees I am out. As does the NW's tool. I consider this safe enough, and still as you said, you never know until you have been to a tribunal.

You wouldn't take an IR35 specialists advice on how to do your accounts so why are you content with your accountants opinion on your IR35 status? Pass it by QDOS or other proper specialist to take any doubt.

[blacksta]

£936 Inc Vat and he spends about 2 hours on my books for the whole years

that works out to be £468 per hour - Wish i was an accountant

[malvolio]

it does help thanks.You got me thinking....
I just went to NW's site and used the IR35 checker. According to it I am out of IR35.
I am aware of IR35 although I am not an expert in it. And I dont need to be, as you said it takes someone who knows what they are doing. First thing this accountant asked me was 'Are you in or out of IR35?' I showed him the clauses of the contract and he agrees I am out. As does the NW's tool. I consider this safe enough, and still as you said, you never know until you have been to a tribunal.
While all you guys are very helpful I wasn't asking 'Am I in or out of IR35?'. I was asking 'Is this a good price?' Please stick to the question.

OK, the correct answer is "I have no idea". It's your money, you decide. As I keep on saying, good accountants are free. Bad ones are ruinously expensive. Which one you've got you won't know for a while. Price simply isn't a consideration, quality ad accuracy of service is.

As for your IR35 status assessment, you're having a laugh (well I am, to be precise), but you don't want to know that.

[d000hg]

I give everything to HMRC. They take what is fair and give the rest to my accountant. The accountant then takes a fair fee and passes the rest on to me. I don't need to know the details, these are trustworthy people.

[speling bee]

it does help thanks.You got me thinking....
I just went to NW's site and used the IR35 checker. According to it I am out of IR35.
I am aware of IR35 although I am not an expert in it. And I dont need to be, as you said it takes someone who knows what they are doing. First thing this accountant asked me was 'Are you in or out of IR35?' I showed him the clauses of the contract and he agrees I am out. As does the NW's tool. I consider this safe enough, and still as you said, you never know until you have been to a tribunal.
While all you guys are very helpful I wasn't asking 'Am I in or out of IR35?'. I was asking 'Is this a good price?' Please stick to the question.

Apologies for deviating form the question.

Answer is 'no'.

[garnet]

Not sure I understood any of that. However...

It's your company, you are responsible. If you believe it is outside and have taken steps to determine that it is - which you don't seem to have done but we'll let that slide - then you decide how to pay yourself. If you think it's inside, then you have to apply the rules for IR35. But whichever way you decide, it's your call, nobody else's (least of all the agent's).

Secondly if your contract and your working practices aren't fully aligned, the contratct and all its get-out-of-jail-free clauses will be ignored.

Thirdly, you will never know for certain until you have been to a Tribnunal.

Finally, your accountant does what you tell him. He can only advise. How much that advice is worth over and above his more traditional duties is only something you will be able to judge. I pay my accountant the equuivalent of three hours gross income a month and never bother them; seems like a good trade off to me. YMMV.

So given the above and your own apparent lack of knowledge on the subject, I suggest you get your next contract reviewed by someone who knows what they're doing before you sign it, and get your self some PEI protection now.

HTH

it does help thanks.You got me thinking....
I just went to NW's site and used the IR35 checker. According to it I am out of IR35.
I am aware of IR35 although I am not an expert in it. And I dont need to be, as you said it takes someone who knows what they are doing. First thing this accountant asked me was 'Are you in or out of IR35?' I showed him the clauses of the contract and he agrees I am out. As does the NW's tool. I consider this safe enough, and still as you said, you never know until you have been to a tribunal.
While all you guys are very helpful I wasn't asking 'Am I in or out of IR35?'. I was asking 'Is this a good price?' Please stick to the question.

[malvolio]

Sure, well, the contract is now signed. You only have that much ability to change contracts when you sign up with an agency. They have other contractors working for them (some even for the same client) and no one was in. Contract contains all the outside IR35 wordings.I mentioned these to him and he also agrees it is outside IR - only time will reveal.
My point was - if we assume it is outside IR35, is it a good price and extent of service?
I am sure that if contract is found to be in IR35 he can/will adjust everything.

Not sure I understood any of that. However...

It's your company, you are responsible. If you believe it is outside and have taken steps to determine that it is - which you don't seem to have done but we'll let that slide - then you decide how to pay yourself. If you think it's inside, then you have to apply the rules for IR35. But whichever way you decide, it's your call, nobody else's (least of all the agent's).

Secondly if your contract and your working practices aren't fully aligned, the contratct and all its get-out-of-jail-free clauses will be ignored.

Thirdly, you will never know for certain until you have been to a Tribnunal.

Finally, your accountant does what you tell him. He can only advise. How much that advice is worth over and above his more traditional duties is only something you will be able to judge. I pay my accountant the equuivalent of three hours gross income a month and never bother them; seems like a good trade off to me. YMMV.

So given the above and your own apparent lack of knowledge on the subject, I suggest you get your next contract reviewed by someone who knows what they're doing before you sign it, and get your self some PEI protection now.

HTH

[stek]

You reckon with NW? To be honest, I ALWAYS get the same guy unless he's off on leave or something. Knows his stuff too and is very helpful.

Perhaps he is the trainee though and he just asks someone every time I ask something. LOL. :-)

No seriously, as Stek says, NW are very good at being pro-active.

Im a bit of a miserable twat and will be the first person to moan/complain if somebody screws up but Danny at NW is always spot on.

No, I mean the background work may well be done by a trainee, they have to learn but it's always Danny I get not a trainee! Danny is God! And as we are both Bolton Wanderers fans he's more my contact at NW than yours ok so stop coming between us!!

Recently I've had Alan on my case cos I've not looked through the end-of-year accounts, it's this sort of badgering we contractors need (and I've got till Feb 2013!)! I'm doing it Alan, but first the dog peed on it than I left it on the bus by accident....

Lesser firms will ask once, stick it the drawer, then u get fined and it's your fault for not doing what was asked. Seriously, NW have my vote whilst the OP's choice may be good, we contractors do need to be pushed mostly....

[garnet]

2nd contract might be outside but 1st one might be inside.

Sure, well, the contract is now signed. You only have that much ability to change contracts when you sign up with an agency. They have other contractors working for them (some even for the same client) and no one was in. Contract contains all the outside IR35 wordings.I mentioned these to him and he also agrees it is outside IR - only time will reveal.
My point was - if we assume it is outside IR35, is it a good price and extent of service?
I am sure that if contract is found to be in IR35 he can/will adjust everything.

[psychocandy]

I don't know - I use Nixon Williams as others do, they often email and even call telling me about certain legislative changes and how I will be affected and options as to what to do and what not to do. Proactive rather than reactive.

I good rule for me (as an ex-account myself!) is a good one should save his costs over the year by little advises and better ways to treat things tax-wise, you have to ask will your do that?

£700 a year is what, 10 hours of his time? Hour a month? You can bet the trainee on reception will be doing most of it and thats true with NW and others I'm sure but for me it's the proactiveness, and that NW, SJD etc are contractor-friendly and know the rules.

Only time will tell, why not give him a go?

You reckon with NW? To be honest, I ALWAYS get the same guy unless he's off on leave or something. Knows his stuff too and is very helpful.

Perhaps he is the trainee though and he just asks someone every time I ask something. LOL. :-)

No seriously, as Stek says, NW are very good at being pro-active.

Im a bit of a miserable twat and will be the first person to moan/complain if somebody screws up but Danny at NW is always spot on.

[speling bee]

2nd contract might be outside but 1st one might be inside.

I would suggest that there are four permutations.

[psychocandy]

I am pretty sure my contract is outside ir35, and there might be a second client, which puts me completely outside.
What else do I need from him in terms of 'jsut enough operation'?

2nd contract might be outside but 1st one might be inside.

[stek]

No it doesn't. You need an accountant or other adviser who understands IR35.

SB is spot on.