Reply to: Working from home

[jmo21]

Sorry but I don't agree, well only partly. Yes your right in theory but to take this attitude just over obtaining permission to work from home? Have to weigh up the cost of upsetting them over the benefit of upsetting them and this case I don't think this carte blanche approach is justified.

At the end of the day there is nothing here saying that he WON'T freely give permission. It might be he has been burnt with people abusing homeworking so he is keeping tight reign on it. Nothing wrong with that. What's the point of kicking up such a fuss when he might say ok anyway?

Where does it say in your contract they have to give you a valid or fair reason for exercising a notice period?

They do not need a reason.

The PM guy couldn't give a toss what is in your contract, he wasn't the one that wrote it. All he'll see is that you want to work from home and he prefers to see "bums on seats".

[rsingh]

Just a final update on this one...
I informed the client, who emailed me to tell me I must work from the office.

Could you clarify please? Are you referring to the new permie manager, or somebody else on the site?

Thanks.

[Pondlife]

Good news.

[mcskiver]

Just a final update on this one...

I took a day working from home yesterday, as I was just writing up some documentation. I informed the client, who emailed me to tell me I must work from the office.

I politely explained that this was a change to my contractual obligations, and that i'd already been very flexible when required but that this was unreasonable.

He apologised for not understanding what had originally been agreed in the contract, and said that he was fine with me combining the two.

So it worked well in the end, though I wouldn't have pushed it without a bit of guidance from everyone here, so thanks for the advice!

[malvolio]

Sorry but I don't agree, well only partly. Yes your right in theory but to take this attitude just over obtaining permission to work from home? Have to weigh up the cost of upsetting them over the benefit of upsetting them and this case I don't think this carte blanche approach is justified.

At the end of the day there is nothing here saying that he WON'T freely give permission. It might be he has been burnt with people abusing homeworking so he is keeping tight reign on it. Nothing wrong with that. What's the point of kicking up such a fuss when he might say ok anyway?

You miss the point, slightly. He should not be framing the question as an employee - "Can I work from home next Friday please" - but as a supplier - "I will be working from home next Friday". You can and should be polite and accommodating, obviously, but at the end of the day, we didn't go contracting to be told what to do to that extent, especially since he's already supplying his own kit.

And if homeworking is in the contract for services agreed with the OP, then the client doesn't have a leg to stand on. The only requirement is that the work gets delivered to the required time and quality.

[northernladuk]

Clearly inferring that i'm "crying like a bitch", which is a bit harsh. I haven't spoken to anyone about it except my agency and of course the post to this forum for a bit of advice. I'm talking about doing something i'm *not* contracted to do, or rather, I was trying to clarify my contractual position using the advice of other experienced contractors. Seems fair enough, no?

I am not 'Clearly inferring' anything at all. I am distinctly describing a situation where the person in question was in a similar position but I continue on to describe exactly how he handled it as evidence of the outcome of taking that route. I fail to see any inferrence at all. No offence is meant and have editted the post as it could be seen has harsh. My apologies.

[mcskiver]

Thanks for the replies.

On this point: "A guy was in this situation at my place and threw a fuss an moaned to the other contractors and permies about it. The end result of this is he is now just another f***ing contractor and we have been tarred with the same brush by sitting there and do exactly as we are told/contracted. Personally I think he should have just shut up and got on with it instead of crying like a bitch as he dropped us all in it and further tarred our profession. Food for thought?"

Clearly inferring that i'm "crying like a bitch", which is a bit harsh. I haven't spoken to anyone about it except my agency and of course the post to this forum for a bit of advice. I'm talking about doing something i'm *not* contracted to do, or rather, I was trying to clarify my contractual position using the advice of other experienced contractors. Seems fair enough, no?

It's something that became an issue for me because the client moved offices, which meant an extra 30-45 minutes a day commute. As my wife recently had our first nipper I personally feel that's a useful amount of time that would mean I got home before he went to bed, rather than after. If you don't think that's important, that's up to you.

Anyway, thanks for the advice everyone!

[northernladuk]

You're thinking like a permie. The contract is clear, go with it. If they kick up, then fine, tulip happens. As you say, letting them control where you work is a bad idea for IR35 at the best of times, even more so when you have the right to decide for yourself.

Don't worry about upsetting them. If you're professional, they'll have nothing to be upset about. Your line manager might, but you don't have a contract with him.

You're running a business. Behave like it.

Sorry but I don't agree, well only partly. Yes your right in theory but to take this attitude just over obtaining permission to work from home? Have to weigh up the cost of upsetting them over the benefit of upsetting them and this case I don't think this carte blanche approach is justified.

At the end of the day there is nothing here saying that he WON'T freely give permission. It might be he has been burnt with people abusing homeworking so he is keeping tight reign on it. Nothing wrong with that. What's the point of kicking up such a fuss when he might say ok anyway?

[northernladuk]

i'm worried that the going along with his little charade makes me more likely to be IR35 caught!

Surely the fact it is in your contract is all you need to prove to IR35 guys. The fact that client wishes you to work on his site is neither here nor there when it comes to IR35. It's one thing being a consultant and not seen as a hidden employee but its totally another thing to be swanning in and out and picking your work place as you see fit.

Your contracted to do this so IR35 tick. The client respects your contract but wants you to work on his site. You haven't changed contract so no change to IR35 status IMHO. The actuals are dealt with by gentlemans agreement or client/provider agreement.

I have a personal note to add here. A guy was in this situation at my place and threw a fuss an moaned to the other contractors and permies about it. The end result of this is he is now seen just another f***ing contractor and we have been tarred with the same brush by sitting there and do exactly as we are told/contracted. Personally I think he should have just shut up and got on with it instead of involving other contractors and permies as he dropped us all in it and further tarred our profession. Food for thought?

[malvolio]

You're thinking like a permie. The contract is clear, go with it. If they kick up, then fine, tulip happens. As you say, letting them control where you work is a bad idea for IR35 at the best of times, even more so when you have the right to decide for yourself.

Don't worry about upsetting them. If you're professional, they'll have nothing to be upset about. Your line manager might, but you don't have a contract with him.

You're running a business. Behave like it.

[mcskiver]

I'm leaving in a month anyway, don't wish to extend (partly because of this changing work situation), so that isn't an issue.

I'm interested in the idea they could give me notice though. I know in practice if they gave me notice there's sweet FA I could do about it, but could they legally give me notice because I try to apply the terms agreed in the contract?

I just contacted the agency to see if they could advise me on the politest way to deal with it, and they're going to get back to me but at the moment see it as a"benefit" that I got to work from home previously!

This despite the fact they only allowed me to do it because they couldn't provide the equipment needed to do the job! Seems to me I did them the favour...

[d000hg]

How feasible is it as a business to get a contract saying you'll charge £X/day, with an excess of £Y/day working away from your own premises?

In common-sense "I'll work in whichever location but I'll charge less for each day I'm at home".

[VectraMan]

You are within your rights to insist, but of course the client is within their rights to terminate your contract as long as they stick to the amount of notice agree. And they're definitely within their rights not to give you an extension.

So you might want to play it carefully.

[stingman123]

In a previous contract, the paperwork specifically quoted me as being at a specific site, once the client site changed, I was told that the contract was null and void, I immediately got onto my agency and was given a rate rise and the option to work from home for 2 days a week.

[mcskiver]

I suppose the next question is then, do you have any advice or experience in dealing with this?

(Thanks for the quick response by the way)...