Reply to: Are UK companies allowed to offer visa sponsorships if there isn’t a skill shortage?

[CoolCat]

People early in their career would probably benefit from spending some time in the office but it depends on the quality of the interaction they get.

My daughter has just completed her first year of uni. In that time she's been working part time remotely for a PR and marketing firm with one of their tech clients. She's never once had to go in the office and has managed to learn a lot it seems.

However, she's about to start a three month remote internship for a startup and I think that will be more challenging for her.

Like a lot of things to do with post-Covid work, we might not really see or understand the full effects for a few years yet.

I learnt far more from my workmates around me in my first job than I ever learnt in college, and not the kind of stuff which can be taught remotely.

[edison]

Also, while remote working is usually fine for people who have done the job for years I am not sure how I would have coped with it when first starting out.

People early in their career would probably benefit from spending some time in the office but it depends on the quality of the interaction they get.

My daughter has just completed her first year of uni. In that time she's been working part time remotely for a PR and marketing firm with one of their tech clients. She's never once had to go in the office and has managed to learn a lot it seems.

However, she's about to start a three month remote internship for a startup and I think that will be more challenging for her.

Like a lot of things to do with post-Covid work, we might not really see or understand the full effects for a few years yet.

[SussexSeagull]

Also, while remote working is usually fine for people who have done the job for years I am not sure how I would have coped with it when first starting out.

[edison]

actually the Indian restaurants simply refuse to hire even the very best output from our catering colleges, I am talking about places where many go onto working for the best chefs. the Brits coming out of these colleges are well able to do any of the Indian menus. the Indian restaurants prefer to import chefs from India, for multiple reasons, for one they can bully them more easily as they simply dont know the rules and employment rights here, for 2 they can pay off the books some or all of the money and avoid tax, and so on. the Indian restaurants are simply racist against the native population when it comes to hiring for their kitchens.

Aren't most 'Indian' restaurants in the UK actually run by Bangladeshis?

Chefs might be a very specialist skill depending on the cuisine perhaps which requires importing in talent. A lot of IT jobs really shouldn't be in that category where it surely must be possible to train and develop British people.

I worked at a client a few years ago which had trouble attracting and retaining IT staff. They piloted a data apprenticeship scheme and there was a lot of interest in it. A couple of years later they had trained up several data analysts and data scientists.

I've done work with clients on workforce development to include things like mentoring, coaching, training programmes etc. Unfortunately, a lot of organisations are poorly managed with ineffective managers who have barely enough time to do anything other than their day job and development of staff ends up being a very low priority.

It's such a shame. There is a huge opportunity here to develop our skills base and improve employee engagement given lack of career development is one of the biggest reasons for low engagement.

[sadkingbilly]

actually the Indian restaurants simply refuse to hire even the very best output from our catering colleges, I am talking about places where many go onto working for the best chefs. the Brits coming out of these colleges are well able to do any of the Indian menus. the Indian restaurants prefer to import chefs from India, for multiple reasons, for one they can bully them more easily as they simply dont know the rules and employment rights here, for 2 they can pay off the books some or all of the money and avoid tax, and so on. the Indian restaurants are simply racist against the native population when it comes to hiring for their kitchens.

Really? wow.
and you know this to be true?
All the Indian restaurants in the UK?

who knew?

[CoolCat]

To train anyone you need to have people who actually want to do the job. A chef's job is uber hard, long hours, hard work, pay isn't that great unless you get to some fancy level at which bullying etc. are very common and even then you might be making so little that you go hungry but getting all that experience. Compared to that IT sounds like a walk in the park.

actually the Indian restaurants simply refuse to hire even the very best output from our catering colleges, I am talking about places where many go onto working for the best chefs. the Brits coming out of these colleges are well able to do any of the Indian menus. the Indian restaurants prefer to import chefs from India, for multiple reasons, for one they can bully them more easily as they simply dont know the rules and employment rights here, for 2 they can pay off the books some or all of the money and avoid tax, and so on. the Indian restaurants are simply racist against the native population when it comes to hiring for their kitchens.

[funkyContractorITUK]

Anyone else see Richard Tice mention that Reform would ask companies to pay more for bringing in overseas workers in the form or higher NI contributions etc. ?

[dsc]

[...]
It seems crazy that we can't train up enough chefs in this country never mind having to recruit so many IT workers.

To train anyone you need to have people who actually want to do the job. A chef's job is uber hard, long hours, hard work, pay isn't that great unless you get to some fancy level at which bullying etc. are very common and even then you might be making so little that you go hungry but getting all that experience. Compared to that IT sounds like a walk in the park.

[edison]

There's an interesting story on the front page of today's Financial Times saying that chef has overtaken 'programmer' as the most common occupation of migrants entering the UK on a skilled worker visa. Chef visas rose 54% in the year to March whilst programmer visas halved. The latter seems a bit surprising to me.

Presumably lots of UK chefs will be complaining about this on contractorchefsuk.com

It seems crazy that we can't train up enough chefs in this country never mind having to recruit so many IT workers.

[uk contractor]

I can share having worked for last 3 years in a well known Tier 1 IB this is blatantly going on but they skirt around the rules by hiring for something with a shortage then pushing the existing staff out to replace with low & behold someone they happen to have onsite already earning 75% less but who has the relevant experience apparently.....sheer coincidence what are the odds

[Cookielove]

Can only speak from personal experience as a Software Tester but the Test team in my last contract was roughly 50% Indian born, including the manager. Not a criticism of them as they have followed the rules to come here and indeed the rules have changed over the years but a lot of Indians came in a few years back and never went back.

Again only one perspective but in some sectors it has made a difference.

That is a very similar experience to me @SussexSeagull....but as you see from some posts I got set upon for saying it !

It has made a difference....no getting away from it.

[SussexSeagull]

Guernsey isn't exactly what I would call super international...

How was Switzerland in terms of protecting "their own"? cause last time I checked and applied for a position there, there was absolutely no issues with non-Swiss to work there, also they wanted someone on a low salary and most of the company workers were non-Swiss / non-EU.

Currently there's a tulip ton of people looking for work in the UK and no, the majority of them are not Indian nationals, whatever Daily Mail is trying to tell you. Heck look at these boards and tell me how many people are looking and have been looking for ages.

Can only speak from personal experience as a Software Tester but the Test team in my last contract was roughly 50% Indian born, including the manager. Not a criticism of them as they have followed the rules to come here and indeed the rules have changed over the years but a lot of Indians came in a few years back and never went back.

Again only one perspective but in some sectors it has made a difference.

[Paracelsus]

they would rather pick the US, than this tulip hole.

Alas, one does not simply pick the US... unless you're a top 1% coder, it's hard to find employers willing to sponsor a foreigner, and even then, you're into the H1B lottery. US is generally fiercely protective of its citizenship and job market and their border control doesn't mess about. Much easier to come to/stay in the UK.

[Cookielove]

Well, they're increasing at 2% in real terms, the highest they've been in the last couple of years. They have been pretty stagnant (or worse) in real terms until recently.

Yup....they have only recently started to increase but been stagnant (or declining...) for a long time

[jamesbrown]

Wages are stagnant in the UK fact

Well, they're increasing at 2% in real terms, the highest they've been in the last couple of years. They have been pretty stagnant (or worse) in real terms until recently.