Reply to: What would you bill for this?

[northernladuk]

Thought I'd post an update on this that absolutely no-one asked for

Contract 1, the PITA client who wanted me to extend through September on two days a week, I ended up working out how long the additional work would take me (it was eight days or something) and renewed on that basis. Contract runs until 30 September with number of days expected to be billed being eight. All fine. All attempts made by me to get some update on when they would provide the data i needed to complete the work got ignored. They had previously refused a handover. I updated PMO to that effect. None of the eight days were billed. 1st October I get an email from client to my personal account asking for help. Obviously, I can't since my contract expired the previous day and all my previous attempts to resolve had been ignored. Client wasn't chuffed. Don't know what the final outcome was for them.

Contract 2, I continued with this one as normal but have moved on from there too now.

So there you have it. I got stressed about it for absolutely no reason!

Always interesting to hear how situations pan out. We give random advice and rarely hear what the outcome was so don't know if it was good advice or not so nice to see different this time. On the first comment though let me clarify. Its Greenbastards updates no one asks for or cares about, you can update all day long.

[KinooOrKinog]

Thought I'd post an update on this that absolutely no-one asked for

Contract 1, the PITA client who wanted me to extend through September on two days a week, I ended up working out how long the additional work would take me (it was eight days or something) and renewed on that basis. Contract runs until 30 September with number of days expected to be billed being eight. All fine. All attempts made by me to get some update on when they would provide the data i needed to complete the work got ignored. They had previously refused a handover. I updated PMO to that effect. None of the eight days were billed. 1st October I get an email from client to my personal account asking for help. Obviously, I can't since my contract expired the previous day and all my previous attempts to resolve had been ignored. Client wasn't chuffed. Don't know what the final outcome was for them.

Contract 2, I continued with this one as normal but have moved on from there too now.

So there you have it. I got stressed about it for absolutely no reason!

[TheGreenBastard]

Yes, I am currently available all day and replying to messages. I still have some stuff to do, but by next month it's not going to be taking up more than an hour of my time each day.

I think in all honesty, I'll bill for the days I've worked. Can't have it both ways, as people have pointed out, even though the client is a huge pita.

Interesting demonstration of how little you value your own time in contrast to their financial resources, even the client being "a huge PITA" incurs a cost in my book - and by your own account they wouldn't have qualms about paying?

[northernladuk]

Excuse me, did you just assume my gender?! It's she..

My apologies

[KinooOrKinog]

It will be over shortly, you'll not understand why you got so flustered over it once you are gone and you are going get trash talked by the client whatever you do.

This is true!

Where did it say he's turning up? He's billing another client currently anyway so he's not losing money waiting.

Excuse me, did you just assume my gender?! It's she..

He's making his services available, isn't he a business? There's a cost to being available...

Yes, I am currently available all day and replying to messages. I still have some stuff to do, but by next month it's not going to be taking up more than an hour of my time each day.

I think in all honesty, I'll bill for the days I've worked. Can't have it both ways, as people have pointed out, even though the client is a huge pita.

[northernladuk]

He's making his services available, isn't he a business? There's a cost to being available...

He's on a delivery based agreement and there is nothing to deliver. He's signed up for that type of contract so has to bite the bullet. If there was something in the contract that said a certain amount of work needs to be done in a period or minumum charge per month or something maybe but the chosen delivery method has a downside and this is it. We generally talk about no work no pay for the daily brigade, this is similar as in no delivery no pay. Certainly up for negotiation seems it is the clients fault so introducing a retainer could be the way to go but no idea if the client can refuse so late in the delivery.

What will happen in periods of no work to deliver should have been covered in the original agreement when he started but you can be forgiven for not considering this aspect of the delivery method. You'd assume the client has work to do but really should be something in there to cover the contractor should the client not make work available which I guess there isn't.

[TheGreenBastard]

Bill for a mixture of being available and carrying out the work. Having multiple gigs whilst reading the state of the market thread solidifies why real business have multiple clients.

Where did it say he's turning up? He's billing another client currently anyway so he's not losing money waiting.

He's making his services available, isn't he a business? There's a cost to being available...

[northernladuk]

I'd bill. You're turning up every day waiting for the dependency to be unblocked. There's an opportunity cost for you to wait around like that i.e. you could be working on other stuff.

Where did it say he's turning up? He's billing another client currently anyway so he's not losing money waiting.

[BigLadFromBeeston666]

I'd bill. You're turning up every day waiting for the dependency to be unblocked. There's an opportunity cost for you to wait around like that i.e. you could be working on other stuff.

It might get tricky when the client asks you "erm, so what have you done the last X weeks / months?". Is there some documentation / administrative stuff you can do in the meantime to 'prepare' for the dependency to be unblocked?

Ultimately it comes down to the wording in your contract. In my past experience I've always billed when there's been a dependency I'm waiting on. Although it has never taken more than a week to resolve so YMMV.

[northernladuk]

Why is the handover more stressful? If the client is tulip, I'd write up a document for the handover and get the hell out.

I would have normally agreed. It wouldn't make sense to me but I had to exit my last client fairly quickly after two years and the handover was just massive. I was more stressed handing over a very complex piece of work than I would have just carrying on. What I have to say is though, it's very short term and no one will give a monkies if you've done it well or just chucked it over the fence when you've gone so it's very personal pressure.

But still, handing over shouldn't be more hassle and even if it is just grit your teeth and get it done. It will be over shortly, you'll not understand why you got so flustered over it once you are gone and you are going get trash talked by the client whatever you do.

[dsc]

Why is the handover more stressful? If the client is tulip, I'd write up a document for the handover and get the hell out.

[KinooOrKinog]

Hmm, what? why?

Why what? Why do I not want to stay, or why did I not say no?
I don't want to stay because the culture and client is a bit of a nightmare. I didn't say no because handing the work over will be more stressful than doing it myself.

[dsc]

[...]I don't want to stay any longer but the thought of potentially handing the work over is more stressful than actually completing it myself, so I didn't say no. [...]

Hmm, what? why?

[jamesbrown]

The answer to your question should be somewhere within your contract wording, unless the contract itself is a dogs dinner, so it's odd that you are asking it here. That said, a typical contract is T&M for time actually spent or fixed price for deliverables actually delivered so, unless you have a retainer-like agreement whereby payment is independent of work requested/done, the answer is obvious: no, you should not get paid. Of course, the client may not understand their own contract, so it's not impossible that you get away with it.

[northernladuk]

You are going to get two answers. Those that think they are entitled to bill both because they can and those that will only bill for work done. I'm the latter. You do state both contracts are based on deliverables which is what you get paid for. No work, no deliverabels so no billing IMO. You can't have it both ways. Billable on delivery but in between billable on days? I'd say no.

I think you've already got a sweet setup there that they are willing to keep you on and give you work when they are ready. The work will appear and you will get paid so just sitting an waiting isn't a big deal. Why push it to far for the sake of a few days.

Only you know but I've a feeling when the work appears they are gonna want it doing quick and hard which could really interfere with the new gig when it gets going but that's for you to manage.