Reply to: Spain digital nomad visa

[agentzero]

I agree with Oliverson that Spain isn't the ideal destination for permanent residence until you aren't working and are retiring. Location matters too, it's experiencing a lot of climate problems with climate change and many areas are simply too hot to be comfortable for late spring to early autumn.

There are however places with high quality of living and that are sound democracies. Scandinavia is good because they have a similar sense of humour to people from the UK. Not everybody wants unabated scorching sun in summer. Try Denmark for size, if you want good work life balance and a better lifestyle.

[SussexSeagull]

I think if you have money then the UK is still a good place to live. If your main worry is paying too much tax then it isn't for you, although it also isn't the worse for that. Also, a lot of the challenges the UK are facing are repeated to a greater or lesser degree around the west.

Every country has its advantages and disadvantages and the grass isn't always greener. In fact it literally isn't in the dryer parts of Spain.

[oliverson]

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Your definition of better might only be tax, but it isn't my definition. The UK hasn't been a good country to live in for quite a while now. Why tolerate less than you truly want?
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Despite the current state of the UK, I'm not sure Spain is any better either. You have to spend time in a place to reach that conclusion, not read what a few web sites have to say. I've had my property there over 20 years now so I'm suitably qualified to speak on the subject.

This notion that the climate is fantastic is seriously misguided, and it depends on what you're looking for. In Southern Spain where we are, July and August are just too hot, certainly for me, and especially for my dogs. Monsoon levels of rain this March day after day for 3 weeks straight, cold temperatures as well. Couple that with zero insulated properties, marble everywhere and no credible heating system. Very miserable. Spain looks very different when it gets no sun, trust me. Then there's last October/November when we had a 24 hour thunderstorm. Solid for 24 hours. Took a few peoples life before heading north to Valencia where it took a whole lot more. Thanks to this year's storms, the 6 year drought in Spain is over and the reservoirs completely full. Prior to that, water restrictions year after year.

The cost of food and drink has risen incredibly. Social unrest at lack of housing, and yes, they've got their own immigration problem as well. The country is pretty racist as well tbh, they tolerate us but we don't really fit in, we will never truly fit in. We are culturally dissimilar, you've only to witness Easter parades over there to know what I mean, as an example. I could bang on about the issues with Spain but there's too many to list. I now realise that my failure to find a solution for the DNV has been a godsend.

[agentzero]

Think I've written this off again, certainly from a Limited company perspective. Others have pointed out that I may be creating a 'permanent establishment' and risk facing two lots of corporation tax.

I'm resigned to fulfilling this 12 month extension I just signed, hoping there's another one off the back of that, and if so, retiring in mid-2016, god willing. I can then move to Spain on a non-lucrative visa and get my golf handicap down!!

If your target is mid-2016 you're nearly a decade late already.

Stop letting tax and money control you. If you want to move to Spain, temporarily or permanently with visits back to the UK, do it. 10%, 20% extra tax here or there - so what? A lot of people post here of moving but few seem to follow through and cite tax as the reason. There seems to be some nationalist pride instilled that stops people moving to better countries. Your definition of better might only be tax, but it isn't my definition. The UK hasn't been a good country to live in for quite a while now. Why tolerate less than you truly want?

If you have young children, a partner, you want different things in life than an retiree. You would be considering better education standards, higher quality of living, better healthcare, job market, less poverty. The UK isn't a good market for jobs once you removed low paid and minimum wage jobs.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ngs-by-country

https://www.miqols.org/toolbox/wqoli.html

My opinion is the best tool is this, from the OECD:

https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org

If you have a family and value what I mention above, it is obvious that Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Finland are much better to live in as a family raising children and having a well paying job as a professional. YMMV.

If people on this forum don't see the way the UK trajectory after 15 years of gradual decline in these listings above, worse so after the pandemic, then maybe they deserve to be confined to the UK.

[Bluenose]

notice the comments on this gone quiet but myself and family are moving to Spain. ironically, we were going to go on a NLV but the lure of the filthy lucre dragged me back in again.
i'm inside IR35 and use a UK Brolly , so no problem from there end they are happy to amend my contract of employment to whatever the Spanish Authorities want it to say.
However, one thing that is puzzling me is the income requirements, like most of us who are Inside I Salary sacrifice a most of of my day rate into my SIPP, so it appears i'm only taking home around £3200 per month which at first glance appears under the Spanish IPREM for me , my missus and 10 year old daughter. Would the proof/statements that i'm putting 5k a month into my SIPP be acceptable ?

The DLV calculation is on your gross, they (the Spanish authorities) will check your brolly payslips and your UK bank statements.

National insurance and pension deductions are fine and expected.

Salary sacrifice deductions still work and are expected.

The thing that does not work, is post deduction income tax off-setting because, there is no income tax to pay and therefore no deduction.

Ironically, and brilliantly, you can claim all of your HMRC UK EERNICs against Spanish income tax, taking the spanish income tax rate down from 25% to below 20% and even down to the 15-18% range. It does not work with ENICs. But everytime HMRC puts up EERNICs your Spanish income tax deduction goes up.

[oliverson]

notice the comments on this gone quiet but myself and family are moving to Spain. ironically, we were going to go on a NLV but the lure of the filthy lucre dragged me back in again.
i'm inside IR35 and use a UK Brolly , so no problem from there end they are happy to amend my contract of employment to whatever the Spanish Authorities want it to say.
However, one thing that is puzzling me is the income requirements, like most of us who are Inside I Salary sacrifice a most of of my day rate into my SIPP, so it appears i'm only taking home around £3200 per month which at first glance appears under the Spanish IPREM for me , my missus and 10 year old daughter. Would the proof/statements that i'm putting 5k a month into my SIPP be acceptable ?

Can't answer the latter question but I'm surprised your brolly is OK with this. I spoke to one of the major ones, can't remember which, who advised it wouldn't work as they make all the deductions from your rate and pay them to the UK tax authorities. It wouldn't be possible for that to work with a Spanish tax resident.

I've totally written off the DNV now, being unable to find a way of making it work, which is kind of sad as I do have property over there.

[ramraid44]

notice the comments on this gone quiet but myself and family are moving to Spain. ironically, we were going to go on a NLV but the lure of the filthy lucre dragged me back in again.
i'm inside IR35 and use a UK Brolly , so no problem from there end they are happy to amend my contract of employment to whatever the Spanish Authorities want it to say.
However, one thing that is puzzling me is the income requirements, like most of us who are Inside I Salary sacrifice a most of of my day rate into my SIPP, so it appears i'm only taking home around £3200 per month which at first glance appears under the Spanish IPREM for me , my missus and 10 year old daughter. Would the proof/statements that i'm putting 5k a month into my SIPP be acceptable ?

[oliverson]

I think you should pay for a Spanish tax expert to give you options.

I think you would need to thinking about moving to a part of Spain without a wealth tax if your property and assets are above the thresh-holds.

You will need a proper UK Payroll, not your UK Limited to survive a beckham rate (24%) audit.

The other consideration though is that with UK NICS on that payroll - if you get the 24% Spanish flat-rate you can actually offset some of the UK Employers NICS you pay on the UK payroll against the Spanish bill as expenses and you end up paying less than 24% e.g. 17-24%.

If you are fully paid up on your UK NICS Contributions then I would look very closely at other options, obviously Spain is the number one choice if you have a young family but if you don't it might be worth considering what the other options are because you'll need to keep paying's NICS.

Obviously a limited will work but I doubt you will survive an audit.

Think I've written this off again, certainly from a Limited company perspective. Others have pointed out that I may be creating a 'permanent establishment' and risk facing two lots of corporation tax.

I'm resigned to fulfilling this 12 month extension I just signed, hoping there's another one off the back of that, and if so, retiring in mid-2016, god willing. I can then move to Spain on a non-lucrative visa and get my golf handicap down!!

[Bluenose]

I think you should pay for a Spanish tax expert to give you options.

I think you would need to thinking about moving to a part of Spain without a wealth tax if your property and assets are above the thresh-holds.

You will need a proper UK Payroll, not your UK Limited to survive a beckham rate (24%) audit.

The other consideration though is that with UK NICS on that payroll - if you get the 24% Spanish flat-rate you can actually offset some of the UK Employers NICS you pay on the UK payroll against the Spanish bill as expenses and you end up paying less than 24% e.g. 17-24%.

If you are fully paid up on your UK NICS Contributions then I would look very closely at other options, obviously Spain is the number one choice if you have a young family but if you don't it might be worth considering what the other options are because you'll need to keep paying's NICS.

Obviously a limited will work but I doubt you will survive an audit.

[oliverson]

The itch I keep on coming back to scratch!

Current thinking is why don't I incorporate an Irish company and at renewal, move the contract across to that. I don't think that will create an issue with my US client.

Assuming my visa application was successful I could then pay myself something like £ 50k and pay 24% tax on that, whilst the Irish Ltd company pays only 12.5% Corp. Tax on the rest. IR35 (or similar) almost completely goes away and I have free movement throughout the EU. Company is building up a big some for my retirement (c. 3 years). Rent my UK home out and make a bit off that whilst its value rises. **** all tax to the UK is a big bonus.

See what happens under Labour but what am I missing here?

[Bluenose]

I don't want to refer you all to the facebook group as I don't want to upset the admins here but I used a para-legal to help me with the docs.

Main issue is the A1 certificate from HMRC, everything else is easy. There is a list on the Spanish Manchester and London consulate sites.

You can use your limited but the 24% flat tax rate probably won't apply if you use that route (it won't be 100% confirmed for a while), you would have to use a U.K Brolly and swallow the U.K NI deductions. I am OK with that but others may not be.

[oliverson]

I managed to complete the process with my family. Good luck to those attempting it in 2024.

Congrats.

I'd also be VERY interested to learn more.

[hildaoblivion]

Well done! Interesting to hear details if you're willing to share?

Did you use/keep using your UK Ltd?

What docs were needed and how long to get them...etc

[Bluenose]

I managed to complete the process with my family. Good luck to those attempting it in 2024.

[GJABS]

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