Reply to: T&M Contract - Issue

[SussexSeagull]

If you were attending meetings and reading documentation then you charge them. However if the project is over then stop.

[krytonsheep]

Yes, I do have and funny enough they just came back stating that calling the service desk, going through the documentation, attending meetings won't take the full 8 hours. So I should adjust hours accordingly like 1 hour or 2 hours but not 8 hours.

Always worth a watch when dealing with a client like that

"Mike Monteiro gives us some valuable advice on how to get paid for the work that you do."

[northernladuk]

Yes, I do have and funny enough they just came back stating that calling the service desk, going through the documentation, attending meetings won't take the full 8 hours. So I should adjust hours accordingly like 1 hour or 2 hours but not 8 hours.

Depending on the contract I'd be billing half a day at a minimum, not buggering around with hours. It might be an hour speaking to the service desk but the fact you are then waiting and they get back to you gets very grey. I'd be pragmatic though, if it really is only 30 mins here and there I might write a few off. If you make one call a day lasting 30 mins every day of the week I'd maybe not bill half a day for every single day. It's a balance depending on the situation.

That said if your T&M contract is actually set up for hours rather than days then maybe I'd not do the above.

[northernladuk]

Yes it is, but time spent in a productive manner, not time spent sitting at a desk waiting to be productive. Unless it's the world's worst contract - and even if it is it will be somewhere in the client's engagement Ts&Cs that time spent should be to the client's advantage.

This is rather more complicated than the OP first said. As usual, more details emerge and change the original advice.

Yep.. More details have emerged since my post that means my rather black and white advice isn't black and white anymore. The comments around billing for time worked on a T&M is still valid but now it appears he has done some form of work so saying he can't bill isn't correct as multiple people have pointed out. Frustrating trying to give advice on half a story.

[malvolio]

Isn't the clue here in the fact it's a T&M contract? You know, Time and Materials. That's kinda the whole point of a T&M that you get paid for the time you work.

Yes it is, but time spent in a productive manner, not time spent sitting at a desk waiting to be productive. Unless it's the world's worst contract - and even if it is it will be somewhere in the client's engagement Ts&Cs that time spent should be to the client's advantage.

This is rather more complicated than the OP first said. As usual, more details emerge and change the original advice.

[chirag2205]

then you can bill it. Do you have any evidence of the work? Just send that to supplement the invoice.

Yes, I do have and funny enough they just came back stating that calling the service desk, going through the documentation, attending meetings won't take the full 8 hours. So I should adjust hours accordingly like 1 hour or 2 hours but not 8 hours.

[malvolio]

During those 3 days I was asked to go through the documentation which I did, and was chasing their Service Desk to sort out my access to their environments.

You didn't say that. So as has been said, that effort is billable since you did do work on their behalf. However is it 3 days or just one?

However turning other work down is rather more problematic since that is not their concern. You could, for example, have subbed out some of that other work. What does the contract say about consequential losses and force majeure?

Anyway, all a bit academic. If you want to continue with that client, negotiate on the basis that you spent time on their systems and minimise - not remove - your "losses". If you don't want to keep then on board you will spend more than three days costs and your own time trying to recover them so walk away.

[chirag2205]

I disagree with all the comments, this depends on the specifics of the contract. If you have reserved my time for 10 days and I have potentially turned down other jobs - you are paying for it regardless of whether you have wasted it or not.

That's what they wanted me to work on their project full time for the duration of the contract. Hence I turned down other clients.

[jamesbrown]

If you have reserved my time for 10 days and I have potentially turned down other jobs - you are paying for it regardless of whether you have wasted it or not.

Agree with this, it's time allocated, not work done. If you're contracting for time, you're paying for time. Conversely, if it's fixed price, then you're paying me for work completed, even if it takes me N times longer than I estimated. But the contractual terms do need to be nailed down, obviously, otherwise it really doesn't matter what your opinion might be.

[Lance]

During those 3 days I was asked to go through the documentation which I did, and was chasing their Service Desk to sort out my access to their environments.

then you can bill it. Do you have any evidence of the work? Just send that to supplement the invoice.

[chirag2205]

Isn't the clue here in the fact it's a T&M contract? You know, Time and Materials. That's kinda the whole point of a T&M that you get paid for the time you work. If you didn't you aren't owed a jot. It wouldn't be T&M if you contracted for 10 days and expected 10 days pay for nothing. Pretty fundamental stuff this really.

If you read your contract there should be a clause saying something around you getting paid upon receipt of a signed timesheet. You don't work, no signed timesheet, no pay. It's how we've always worked.

If you don't like not getting paid for work you didn't do don't take Time and Material contracts.


You could say it's nothing to do with 'unfair'. Unfortunate maybe but it's the whole point of T&M and these things happen. You can't complain something is unfair when it's all laid out in the contract in black and white that the OP signed. To be fair to the OP they didn't claim it was a scam or illegal

Point is they could have asked me not to work for those two days, instead, they were expecting me to join all the meetings and go through the documentation. Plus because they wanted me to work on their project on priority basis I turned down other clients.

[chirag2205]

You're being paid to deliver stuff, not to sit in a chair in case you're needed for 20 days.

Yes it's their fault you didn't do any work, but the fact remains you didn't do any. If you want to be paid for doing nothing, then go permie.

Yes, it's unfair, but that's the nature of being an independent. Welcome to reality.

During those 3 days I was asked to go through the documentation which I did, and was chasing their Service Desk to sort out my access to their environments.

[chirag2205]

did you work during the delay?
Or did you just burn their time doing nothing?

Yes I did work, they ask me to attend the meetings and go through the documentation. So I had gone through the documentation which they asked me to.

[eek]

that's the key phrase.
When you're on a customer site waiting then billing for it is fine. But one of the reasons I like the T&M contracts is I can do several in parallel whilst working from home. The client gets the benefit of the additional flexibility, and I get the other benefits.

Sounds like the OPs real problem is not having another one or two of these.

Even in a WFH situation I would be billing for the day - if I've blocked a day out kick off a project it's not possible at zero notice to repurpose it...

I can repurpose the rest of the week but the initial day - it's probably too late.

[cannon999]

I disagree with all the comments, this depends on the specifics of the contract. If you have reserved my time for 10 days and I have potentially turned down other jobs - you are paying for it regardless of whether you have wasted it or not.