Inside IR35: working practises

[psychocandy]

You'd probably be wrong then. IR35 is about taxation. Nothing more. There are controls in the contract that make it an IR35 friendly contract but those are often forgotten about when you hit the clients office. The client managers rarely have a clue what is in the contract and will just treat you as they treat you. Whether you are inside or outside won't matter a jot to them and I'll bet they often won't know. Some will understand you are a contractor and how you work, many others won't and just see you as a temp resource regardless of status. If they want to give you more work or move you on to other stuff they will. There is only you that cares about your status and getting SoW's to cover yourself etc.

nluk is correct.....

[northernladuk]

Thanks for the replies.

I get the financial impact of IR35 and how it works etc. but was wondering if it had a wider impact on the day to day working conditions.

Looking at your experiences it generally doesn't and is just a pure cash grab.

Cheers

I do think if you try not to look at it from the simple absolutes you might understand it all better. It's a complex taxation issue around the way a client sees you v you see yourself, 'not just a cash grab'. Putting it so bluntly means you aren't understanding the nuances which then makes it difficult to work out the knock on of those nuances if you get me.

Stop thinking so one dimensionally and lots more will become apparant.

[Fraidycat]

Thanks for the replies.

I get the financial impact of IR35 and how it works etc. but was wondering if it had a wider impact on the day to day working conditions.

Looking at your experiences it generally doesn't and is just a pure cash grab.

Cheers

In theory clients could become more controlling if they know you are inside IR35/brolly.
Although most clients were pretty controlling in the past anyway when they shouldn't have been, so probably doesn't make much difference in reality.

[David71]

Thanks for the replies.

I get the financial impact of IR35 and how it works etc. but was wondering if it had a wider impact on the day to day working conditions.

Looking at your experiences it generally doesn't and is just a pure cash grab.

Cheers

[Fraidycat]

So the stuff, I entered in Contractor Umbrella calculator (https://www.contractorumbrella.com/) is doubtful then
I entered rate £500 per day, 5 days a week and 1% pension to simulate an IR35 role for 12 months.
£6,051.44 from a gros £10,000 (20 days work)

That website calculation is based on 21 days worked. 10500 a month.

Even then they are about £200 over in my book, £10500 nets about £5875 PAYE using other websites i used, and you still need to take off the brolly fee from that, say £95

So you end up losing 45% at £500 a day in total deductions (£5780 is 55% of 10500). At 600 a day and above the percentage deducted is even higher, you pay even more than 45% in total deductions.

Perhaps they have a way for you to claim circa £200 a month in expenses, and that explains the £200 a month discrepancy i noticed.

[rocktronAMP]

Totally wrong

It’s exactly the same as before (end client does not care if via a Ltd or brolly, you are just a resource )

Your employer is the umbrella who again don’t see you as a real employee

Only real change is you get paid 53% of the gross rate into your pesonal bank account


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

So the stuff, I entered in Contractor Umbrella calculator (https://www.contractorumbrella.com/) is doubtful then
I entered rate £500 per day, 5 days a week and 1% pension to simulate an IR35 role for 12 months.
£6,051.44 from a gros £10,000 (20 days work)

[rocktronAMP]

Hi All

Just reading a few 'IR35' threads and it got me thinking that the whole inside / outside thing is more than just what the effect on the ££££ is.

One of the reasons I don't look at inside roles is that I get the impression you'll be treated more as an employee than a contractor - having to put up with being told what / where / how to work, having line management and office politics etc.

I love what I do, and how I do it, finally getting away from all the employee tulip that ground me down for so many years.

Anyway, I was just wondering if this is an unfair view of 'inside' contracting and maybe (apart from the ££££) is inside not so bad?

It's just a tax grab by the HMRC - nothing political about it - and if you think you are getting away employees then wait until you have to deal a jealous manager or two.

You probably need to read up on threads on the Loan Charge Scandal, IR35 history from 1999 to now, Off Payroll Worker rules, Living And Working Away From Home (LAWAFH), limited company expenses, umbrella companies and then read that stuff again.

[eek]

But now i sense that some of the lower managers, who are just jobsworths, don't want to get the blame for a failed HMRC investigation.

Which is why most sane firms are issuing blanket bans because low level managers are too much risk.

[Fraidycat]

You'd probably be wrong then. IR35 is about taxation. Nothing more. There are controls in the contract that make it an IR35 friendly contract but those are often forgotten about when you hit the clients office. The client managers rarely have a clue what is in the contract and will just treat you as they treat you. Whether you are inside or outside won't matter a jot to them and I'll bet they often won't know. Some will understand you are a contractor and how you work, many others won't and just see you as a temp resource regardless of status. If they want to give you more work or move you on to other stuff they will. There is only you that cares about your status and getting SoW's to cover yourself etc.

At least at my current client, the client is more concerned about working practices now that they are on hook for IR35 past April.

If i raise something as being not compatible with outside IR35 they do take it onboard now.

Where as previously the managers didn't really care, there was nothing in it for them.

But now i sense that some of the lower managers, who are just jobsworths, don't want to get the blame for a failed HMRC investigation.

[eek]

Totally wrong

It’s exactly the same as before (end client does not care if via a Ltd or brolly, you are just a resource )

Your employer is the umbrella who again don’t see you as a real employee

Only real change is you get paid 53% of the gross rate into your pesonal bank account


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

And you can't claim expenses so any and all expenses will have to come from the 53% in your personal bank account.

[GhostofTarbera]

Hi All

Just reading a few 'IR35' threads and it got me thinking that the whole inside / outside thing is more than just what the effect on the ££££ is.

One of the reasons I don't look at inside roles is that I get the impression you'll be treated more as an employee than a contractor - having to put up with being told what / where / how to work, having line management and office politics etc.

I love what I do, and how I do it, finally getting away from all the employee tulip that ground me down for so many years.

Anyway, I was just wondering if this is an unfair view of 'inside' contracting and maybe (apart from the ££££) is inside not so bad?

Totally wrong

It’s exactly the same as before (end client does not care if via a Ltd or brolly, you are just a resource )

Your employer is the umbrella who again don’t see you as a real employee

Only real change is you get paid 53% of the gross rate into your pesonal bank account


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[northernladuk]

You'd probably be wrong then. IR35 is about taxation. Nothing more. There are controls in the contract that make it an IR35 friendly contract but those are often forgotten about when you hit the clients office. The client managers rarely have a clue what is in the contract and will just treat you as they treat you. Whether you are inside or outside won't matter a jot to them and I'll bet they often won't know. Some will understand you are a contractor and how you work, many others won't and just see you as a temp resource regardless of status. If they want to give you more work or move you on to other stuff they will. There is only you that cares about your status and getting SoW's to cover yourself etc.

[David71]

Hi All

Just reading a few 'IR35' threads and it got me thinking that the whole inside / outside thing is more than just what the effect on the ££££ is.

One of the reasons I don't look at inside roles is that I get the impression you'll be treated more as an employee than a contractor - having to put up with being told what / where / how to work, having line management and office politics etc.

I love what I do, and how I do it, finally getting away from all the employee tulip that ground me down for so many years.

Anyway, I was just wondering if this is an unfair view of 'inside' contracting and maybe (apart from the ££££) is inside not so bad?