Reply to: Anyone running two contracts simultaneously,one inside,one outside?

[Lance]

Admittedly I do ignore certain negative posts and posters , but I don't intend to be obtuse (and I am not saying your good self falls under that category).

I've spoke to a number of umbrellas and asked them specifically about running two contracts. Two have also shown me paperwork, I just haven't made a final decision yet.

In my conversations with half a dozen or so to date, I haven't found any that had working restrictions.

They did make it clear that if you billed (even a day) in a week you would pay the full weekly fee but aside from that all they said was that it was my responsibility to ensure my tax affairs were in order. A couple would do SA for a fee, some wouldn't touch it if you have two inomes (but my accountant can handle that anyway).

OK. Understood.
Was just making sure you had done some dilligence.

Good luck. And remember, if both clients want the same work, you can charge them both for the same time.

[youngguy]

but if you haven't chosen the umbrella how can you know what the employment contract says?
Or have you chosen but are just being obtuse?

Admittedly I do ignore certain negative posts and posters , but I don't intend to be obtuse (and I am not saying your good self falls under that category).

I've spoke to a number of umbrellas and asked them specifically about running two contracts. Two have also shown me paperwork, I just haven't made a final decision yet.

In my conversations with half a dozen or so to date, I haven't found any that had working restrictions.

They did make it clear that if you billed (even a day) in a week you would pay the full weekly fee but aside from that all they said was that it was my responsibility to ensure my tax affairs were in order. A couple would do SA for a fee, some wouldn't touch it if you have two inomes (but my accountant can handle that anyway).

[Lance]

The new gig is direct with a startup (outside) and the main one (inside) is via an agency that the company is using as the employment business. You can then face off to any umbrella on their PSL, eg Orange Giant,Paystream etc)

but if you haven't chosen the umbrella how can you know what the employment contract says?
Or have you chosen but are just being obtuse?

[northernladuk]

I've seen the contract and it says it is permissable as long as there is no conflict of interest, which is actually pretty much the same as what my 'main contract' says. I can see how that could be an issue if you were working for two competitors in the same market but that won't apply for me

Does it actually say its permissable or are you assuming that as there appears to be a lack of the information required to lock it down?

[youngguy]

Cool.
What umbrella is that? Might be useful information to know which ones will employ without too much restriction.

The new gig is direct with a startup (outside) and the main one (inside) is via an agency that the company is using as the employment business. You can then face off to any umbrella on their PSL, eg Orange Giant,Paystream etc)

[Lance]

I've seen the contract and it says it is permissable as long as there is no conflict of interest, which is actually pretty much the same as what my 'main contract' says. I can see how that could be an issue if you were working for two competitors in the same market but that won't apply for me

Cool.
What umbrella is that? Might be useful information to know which ones will employ without too much restriction.

[youngguy]

Correct but it's more about the way we are engaged. Generally our contracts stipulate times or a figure of hours a day. We generally aren't contracted against a Statement of work that can be delivered how we see fit. If you are contracted 9 to 5 8 hours a day then that alone stops you having a second client as you'd be doing it on the first clients time which they won't like. Same goes for an employer.

If you've truely managed to get a gig that is based on deliver not time then it's more possible, but that's pretty rare.

Yes I agree and I think this is the area I feel could possibly be a sticking point.

Neither contract stipulates working hours, but they do stipulate what would constitute a working day/half day. It is possible to do a day's work in hr chunks.

Both state flexibility, but as another poster mentioned, client expectations are often the 8 hr model you've mentioned, with the plethora of meetings and expected attendance to boot.

I think I will give it a crack until April and see how it works for all parties involved.

[youngguy]

Just to be clear. You say your future employer won’t prevent you from working for someone else. Have you seen an actual employment contract yet? Until you do it is at best, hearsay, at worst a terrible assumption.

Good luck either way. I have 3 clients right now, all of them know about the others. I have had a very profitable plague.

I've seen the contract and it says it is permissable as long as there is no conflict of interest, which is actually pretty much the same as what my 'main contract' says. I can see how that could be an issue if you were working for two competitors in the same market but that won't apply for me

[northernladuk]

Food for thought here thanks.

I'm not overly worried for this FY (given we are close to the end) but this is the exact thing I have asked my accountant to lay out.

I'm assuming that I'd be best off:
- No salary from Co
- Push majority of inside role salary into pension (salary sacrifice up to £40kpa)
- Draw divvies from Co to take my 'personal income' to the BR tax threshold

Correct but if you've asked your accountant then just take what they say.

[northernladuk]

In a likely unsuccessful effort to bring this back to topic.....

Thanks to those who provided constructive views

I suspected diary management and setting clear client expectations would be needed and this affirms that. Good point on ensuring the contract(s) don't prohibit this (mine doesn't).

It will be interesting to see how clients respond. I think a lot of contractors likely tend to have one client at a time and no matter how much we set expectations, there is often always that PM, or self named "manager" who expects you to be at set meetings and present in their time etc!!

Correct but it's more about the way we are engaged. Generally our contracts stipulate times or a figure of hours a day. We generally aren't contracted against a Statement of work that can be delivered how we see fit. If you are contracted 9 to 5 8 hours a day then that alone stops you having a second client as you'd be doing it on the first clients time which they won't like. Same goes for an employer.

If you've truely managed to get a gig that is based on deliver not time then it's more possible, but that's pretty rare.

[Lance]

In a likely unsuccessful effort to bring this back to topic.....

Thanks to those who provided constructive views

I suspected diary management and setting clear client expectations would be needed and this affirms that. Good point on ensuring the contract(s) don't prohibit this (mine doesn't).

It will be interesting to see how clients respond. I think a lot of contractors likely tend to have one client at a time and no matter how much we set expectations, there is often always that PM, or self named "manager" who expects you to be at set meetings and present in their time etc!!

Just to be clear. You say your future employer won’t prevent you from working for someone else. Have you seen an actual employment contract yet? Until you do it is at best, hearsay, at worst a terrible assumption.

Good luck either way. I have 3 clients right now, all of them know about the others. I have had a very profitable plague.

[youngguy]

Of course its possible, what I did I was stopped paying myself through MyCo, but didn't come off the payroll and so give a P45 to the brolly, you are over paying tax on the Inside role being on a BR tax code but it will all get sorted out at the end of the year SA especially if like me you had already taken dividends off before going inside which would push me into the higher bracket.

Food for thought here thanks.

I'm not overly worried for this FY (given we are close to the end) but this is the exact thing I have asked my accountant to lay out.

I'm assuming that I'd be best off:
- No salary from Co
- Push majority of inside role salary into pension (salary sacrifice up to £40kpa)
- Draw divvies from Co to take my 'personal income' to the BR tax threshold

[youngguy]

In a likely unsuccessful effort to bring this back to topic.....

Thanks to those who provided constructive views

I suspected diary management and setting clear client expectations would be needed and this affirms that. Good point on ensuring the contract(s) don't prohibit this (mine doesn't).

It will be interesting to see how clients respond. I think a lot of contractors likely tend to have one client at a time and no matter how much we set expectations, there is often always that PM, or self named "manager" who expects you to be at set meetings and present in their time etc!!

[Lance]

Sorry Lance, but I Was Not offering advice at all.

yes you were......

Exhibit A.

Go for it.

The only potential issue I see is one of calendar control. Presumably they won't be conjoined so people might be inviting you to things that 'they' see as free time. Until you tell 'em it's not free for some spurious reason.

Otherwise, sounds great to have these opportunities. Make hay, etc.

If you're going to double down, check your facts (and they are YOUR facts) or you'll look a right plonker.

[simes]

I have been purposely looking at Only Outside gigs because my LtdCo has other interests and other investments that require continued earning through, and only through, that same vehicle.

In this one post, you have again demonstrated, for all your posturing, that you are not in business, that you are a warm weather only contractor so long as you have a following wind.

Unfortunately, the only wind you're subjected to is that which is self generated. No, I am not interested in Brolly solutions because that is not my requirement. Hence my questions as to what others might do.

Are you really suggesting that you have an infinite knowledge for all others' business interests and needs across the entire business world? It's a rhetorical question. There is really no need to answer that.

As for my advice, subject to being newly informed about a Brolly situation, anyone can take it, or leave it. I am in business and I will take chances. You, seemingly being a complete flake in the business world, interested only in a self served hand job after feeling important to an invisible audience about something both unimportant and unencouraging, is a lonely job. Take care. If you're not already chaffed...