Reply to: Experis Employed Consultant Roles

[eek]

How difficult is it to change agencies in this FTC model.
Psst.. ClientCo really dislikes the current agency (may or may not be the one in discussion), so I think that could help?

My question is in reality what steps are involved?

Start a new thread as unless you are on agency payroll (which is what Experis employed consultants are although with a fancier name) this thread is irrelevant.

And if you are on a FTC on the agency's payroll the clue is in the fact the agency is paying you (so the end client won't be able to easily replace the agency).

[redman123]

Testing

[LondonManc]

Negotiate your rate directly with the client PM - then the pair of you can laugh at the uplift that the other ghouls in the chain are applying.

[rocktronAMP]

A lot of agencies call these fixed term contracts (FTC). You go on the payroll, and have none of the advantages of being a contractor, while not having the job security of being an employee. They will pay the employers NI, and deduct employment taxes. You get paid holidays.

I have always seen FTCs over the last 20 years on job boards. They were never popular, because most contractors quite rightly think they are crap.

I have seen a lot more FTCs on the job boards during Covid. Perhaps agencies feel it is a way of paying you a lot less, while confusing you with bulltulip terms like "employed consultant", which implies you have employment rights and perks.

Another driver is that many financial services companies insist contractors are either using umbrella or on a payroll.

In a normal market I would avoid FTCs. But in this dreadful market, I guess you need to weigh up using an FTC, against being on the bench for a long time. The big issue with the FTC model is the absense of limited company expenses, can you afford the travel and subsistence, paying for them out of your salary?

Agreed.
I am in FTC for up to 1 year, if I choose to stay in.

During the last winter, I reckon that I lost £30- £45K in LTD earning in normal times, because I spent a long time on the bench looking for that lucrative OUTSIDE IR35 contract, but they all seemed to dry up when the 1st January 2020 came. Bulltulip!

So take it or leave it, regarding your Experis offer. Your choice. You earn or not earn. Decide for your family, loved ones, pets. Balance it off against asking for higher salary.

And yes CaffeineMan is completely 100% correct. You can't claim business expenses, whether it be a new laptop, a new rocking chair, a shared office workspace, commuting, because you will be effective PAYE.

(And by the way, I am still open to alternatives, especially when September comes. Let say an OUTSIDE IR35 6 months arrives on my dormat. I will be gone like a shot, because it will finish before the 6th April 2021 deadline. FTC is rubbish for income, but I negotiated the highest income I could get. The other alternative is to work permanent for a very high salary, say £100K plus and beyond. My question to you (and other), who in their right mind is going to pay an employee that figure, especially during COVID? Gold dust would need to be wafting under your bum cheeks to that to be desirable)

[mjcp]

Lots of views, not many sound like they have actually engaged via an FTC contract....

Yes, the rate on your contract is tulip vs the advertised rate. But... it is similar to an "inside" / Umbrella style rate and this tends to be more than a permie rate for a given role.

Yes, they deduct stuff and pay it back to you - holidays, pension etc. but if the resulting net is acceptable to you, its a commercial decision for you, not the members of the forum.

Think of it as an agency worker type of role, not a contract - you get paid weekly, irrelevant of what terms the end client pays the agency on. You can answer a credit application as "employed" (you ARE). You do get basic employee rights and they are funded by a large company.

In my case, 18 months of known (comfortable) income covering IR35 introduction and Brexit no deal, while my PSC sat still was a no brainer. Especially so, post Covid as I watch my contemporaries sit on a bench having had contracts terminated or not renewed.

So, short answer: Negotiate / haggle. Be prepared to walk away. You will probably get a higher rate, but it will not be equal to a true "outside" contract rate. Work out the net, if it works for you, make a commercial decision.

M


n.b. pension is via NEST.

[Scruff]

I can assure you that my P60 was a LOT more than £50k when I did this. It is all dependent on what you agree with the Agent / Manpower.

It can be good, or bad - it is up to you and your negotiation skills.

[MasterBait]

Yes I've seen this before they pay 50k per year, so I said no thank you

[caffeine man]

Hi,

I've recently been apprached about a role through Experis. I've been advised by the Programme manager that he wants me in the role and no one else, therefore the role is there for me if I want it. Unfortunately, the only way he can get me into the role is to go through Experis (internal policies apparently). It's a 6 month contract with the view to extend. However, Experis have informed me that for me to take the role I need to become a permanent "Experis Employed Consultant". This brings with it an obvious pay cut (from contract) as the salary being offered is nothing like the day rate I know the client are paying Experis for the role.

Has anyone come across this type of employment option before?

I've confirmed with them that at the end of the 6 month engagement if there are no other opportunities then I would be let go. So I feel this is a contract role being sold as a permanent role.

Given the fact that there are no guarantees of work after the 6 month asignment I feel I am having to accept alot of the risk.
Lower salary as not being paid a day rate
My Tax status will be affected
There is no guarantee of work at the end of the 6 month assignment so I would be taking a permanent wage but while having all of the risks of being a contractor.
I don't feel like the salary reflects that fairly.
Travelling expenses are not covered.

Any advice? Has anyone encountered this before?
Thanks.

A lot of agencies call these fixed term contracts (FTC). You go on the payroll, and have none of the advantages of being a contractor, while not having the job security of being an employee. They will pay the employers NI, and deduct employment taxes. You get paid holidays.

I have always seen FTCs over the last 20 years on job boards. They were never popular, because most contractors quite rightly think they are crap.

I have seen a lot more FTCs on the job boards during Covid. Perhaps agencies feel it is a way of paying you a lot less, while confusing you with bulltulip terms like "employed consultant", which implies you have employment rights and perks.

Another driver is that many financial services companies insist contractors are either using umbrella or on a payroll.

In a normal market I would avoid FTCs. But in this dreadful market, I guess you need to weigh up using an FTC, against being on the bench for a long time. The big issue with the FTC model is the absense of limited company expenses, can you afford the travel and subsistence, paying for them out of your salary?

[northernladuk]

Surely it's going to be a massive salary increase? Anything had to be an increase when you are on around 700bquid a month surely!

[BigDataPro]

So what will the Programme Manager do if they can't get you? Will the project be cancelled? I doubt it.

You're the PM's first choice but they will find someone else if a mutually agreeable mechanism can't be found.

Correct. Instead of accepting and sulking, he/she should stand his/her ground or accept it whole heartedly.

[ladymuck]

So what will the Programme Manager do if they can't get you? Will the project be cancelled? I doubt it.

You're the PM's first choice but they will find someone else if a mutually agreeable mechanism can't be found.

[mjcp]

Experis will be paying you via Man Power.

The rate on the contract is shocking vs the rate you saw the ad for... sod all you can do about that but haggle / hope.

The "paid holiday" is taken from the difference in the above, as is ENI, Pension etc etc. Think of it more as an umbrella engagement, without the umbrella... the net rate (should) be) will be similar to umbrella rates.

In my case, the net was a bout 20% lower than my PSC net based on on headline day rate... but it was an 18 month engagement out of the box, which I considered vs the looming IR35, Brexit and recessions...

YMMV

M

[Paralytic]

I've been advised by the Programme manager that he wants me in the role and no one else

As above - tell them you want more and it will comes down to whether you believe this. If so, you're in a strong position. If he was just blowing smoke up your a$$, then you'll be looking for another role.

Is the client one which has said they won't engage with PSCs any more?

[Old Greg]

Hi,

I've recently been apprached about a role through Experis. I've been advised by the Programme manager that he wants me in the role and no one else, therefore the role is there for me if I want it. Unfortunately, the only way he can get me into the role is to go through Experis (internal policies apparently). It's a 6 month contract with the view to extend. However, Experis have informed me that for me to take the role I need to become a permanent "Experis Employed Consultant". This brings with it an obvious pay cut (from contract) as the salary being offered is nothing like the day rate I know the client are paying Experis for the role.

Has anyone come across this type of employment option before?

I've confirmed with them that at the end of the 6 month engagement if there are no other opportunities then I would be let go. So I feel this is a contract role being sold as a permanent role.

Given the fact that there are no guarantees of work after the 6 month asignment I feel I am having to accept alot of the risk.
Lower salary as not being paid a day rate
My Tax status will be affected
There is no guarantee of work at the end of the 6 month assignment so I would be taking a permanent wage but while having all of the risks of being a contractor.
I don't feel like the salary reflects that fairly.
Travelling expenses are not covered.

Any advice? Has anyone encountered this before?
Thanks.

I've encountered that kind of thing before and either found a way to work around it or walked away.

Process I would follow:

1 Go back to Experis and tell them you're not working for that salary / through that employment model. Seeing as this post is for you, they have no alternative way of filling this. They do contract daily rate bods in (see Web Ops Engineer - AWS - Inside IR35 - Remote with ref. J288389A_1595257555 - Experis ) so they are capable of doing this if they want to. Alternatively they could convert the daily rate to salary and pay you properly.

2 (if 1 unsuccessful) Tell end client (if you have a contact there) exactly what happened in step 1 and see if they have an alternative (e.g. Hays) intermediary. Sometimes they do but it's not their preference; or they forget about it; alternatively see if they can pressurise Experis to get you what you wanted in step 1.

3 (If 2 unsuccessful) Walk away.

[Scruff]

I did this through Manpower, for a role at IBM. It lasted 3.5 years and it was very well remunerated, plus it carried 29 days fully paid leave, sick leave, and significant overtime provisions. When it ended, I got statutory redundancy.

Perhaps, I was lucky?