Reply to: How can we fight back against Infosys, TCS and other Indian consultancies?

[SussexSeagull]

I thought this was done already (under the soon to be old regime, at least)?

I believe it is but what seems to happen is 'we can't find someone' really means 'we can't find someone cheap'.

[edison]

As for importing workers a two step process would more or less sort the situation out:

Roles must initially be advertised locally (to stop someone using a company as a bridgehead to get their family and friends over)

If they can't find anyone and need to look abroad - entirely possible in some sectors - then anyone coming over has to be paid the average salary/rate or more and has to pay the same tax as the locals.

I thought this was done already (under the soon to be old regime, at least)?

[Lance]

I wonder if this is still in use as it was a decade ago.

IBM 402 - Wikipedia

in a museum?

[Old Greg]

or go really old.
There's still demand for mainframe legacy skills for example.

I wonder if this is still in use as it was a decade ago.

IBM 402 - Wikipedia

[Lance]

Stay bloody relevant. Dump the old-tech is my advice here.

or go really old.
There's still demand for mainframe legacy skills for example.

[SussexSeagull]

As for importing workers a two step process would more or less sort the situation out:

Roles must initially be advertised locally (to stop someone using a company as a bridgehead to get their family and friends over)

If they can't find anyone and need to look abroad - entirely possible in some sectors - then anyone coming over has to be paid the average salary/rate or more and has to pay the same tax as the locals.

[SussexSeagull]

**Skilled Worker - is the one to concentrate on, where if anyone is fighting back against any sort of consultancies, they need to update their skills set. Focus on the early adopter and innovative technologies and group working soft skills. Stay bloody relevant. Dump the old-tech is my advice here.

This is it. Develop personal connections and a track record of integrating yourself into projects and delivering with the minimum of fuss.

Clients don't always want the cheapest or flashiest option. They want projects to be in safe hands and delivered with the minimum of fuss.

[rocktronAMP]

Perhaps your MP needs to read the new rules

No points based system from 1st Jan

No need to offer Job in Uk 1st

£25K is all you need


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

Also this minimum pa salary drops to £20,600 for health and education sector workers (oh but of course right?).

Essentially, there are three ways into working in the UK going forward (2021):

- Intra Company Transfer - ICT - from today, I think, companies no longer need to meet the minimum Requirements Labour Market Test (RLMT) for the occupation table skill income*. It is possible to transfer a ICT staff worker to a Skilled Worker (immigration).

- Skilled Worker** - which was what you are talking about and that is the 70 points system (50 points are mandatory items) - there is wording for 5-year entry for every 6-year tenure and I think there is also 9-year entry for every 10-year tenure (go and look it up if you are really interested)

- Frontier Worker Scheme - these workers from the EU, EEA and Ireland (Irish people do not have to apply for FWS) and the FWS is coming in 1st July 2021 or whenever the GOV.UK releases it.



*See the other thread about Indian recruitment agencies - the change in ICT requirements essentially blows their alleged strategy out of the water. There is no more need for RLMT, but I bet we will still see the spammy emails.

**Skilled Worker - is the one to concentrate on, where if anyone is fighting back against any sort of consultancies, they need to update their skills set. Focus on the early adopter and innovative technologies and group working soft skills. Stay bloody relevant. Dump the old-tech is my advice here.

Official references


Frontier Worker
Frontier workers in the UK: rights and status - GOV.UK

(Tier 2) Skilled Worker
Skilled Worker visa - GOV.UK

[ShandyDrinker]

Um - my post was to emphasis a point rather than show what I was actually doing - I would personally pay them double the local wage and allow them a decent life where they currently live.

My time is currently spent dealing with umbrella companies and umbrellas to ensure there is a trustworthy supply chain available for those people who will need to use umbrella companies come April...

Fair comment and in that case I misunderstood.

[eek]

Nope. It's been done ad infinitum about employment rights if forced inside so will avoid that topic for now.

I believe it won't improve equality - it will just hand advantages to certain vested interests whether it is like eek rubbing his hands with glee at being able to bring people into the UK at £25k and undoubtedly anyone else trying to run a consultancy. Eek's person on £25k, while most likely on PAYE with the employer/employee NICs that the government so desperately wants, will be able to be fully expensed to stay in hotels, something which IR35 caught contractors will no longer be able to do.

Ultimately, as has been shown with the whole excluded UK thing, part of the risks we take as contractors is to ensure we build up enough of a war chest for lean times, whether caused by generally poor market conditions or more extreme events such as we're seeing now with the pandemic.

For the risks and liquidity we add to the market for delivering projects in the UK, there should be a premium, particularly as we have very little in the way of a safety net. When we have an Oxford Professor pontificating as to whether the self-employed and employed should pay different taxes (to which she stated no), it's typical of someone sitting in their ivory tower never taking a risk.

Um - my post was to emphasis a point rather than show what I was actually doing - I would personally pay them double the local wage and allow them a decent life where they currently live.

My time is currently spent dealing with umbrella companies and umbrellas to ensure there is a trustworthy supply chain available for those people who will need to use umbrella companies come April...

[ShandyDrinker]

Do you agree with IR35 reforms then as that will improve equality?

#tongueincheek

Nope. It's been done ad infinitum about employment rights if forced inside so will avoid that topic for now.

I believe it won't improve equality - it will just hand advantages to certain vested interests whether it is like eek rubbing his hands with glee at being able to bring people into the UK at £25k and undoubtedly anyone else trying to run a consultancy. Eek's person on £25k, while most likely on PAYE with the employer/employee NICs that the government so desperately wants, will be able to be fully expensed to stay in hotels, something which IR35 caught contractors will no longer be able to do.

Ultimately, as has been shown with the whole excluded UK thing, part of the risks we take as contractors is to ensure we build up enough of a war chest for lean times, whether caused by generally poor market conditions or more extreme events such as we're seeing now with the pandemic.

For the risks and liquidity we add to the market for delivering projects in the UK, there should be a premium, particularly as we have very little in the way of a safety net. When we have an Oxford Professor pontificating as to whether the self-employed and employed should pay different taxes (to which she stated no), it's typical of someone sitting in their ivory tower never taking a risk.

[Lance]

Agree with most of what you say.

Per this from the IFS, invoicing from the last few years would put my company around the top 1% mark but only just. I would imagine most contractors on here are comfortably in the top 5%, if not, certainly 10%.

that article contoans this nugget

Partnership and dividend income account for over a quarter of the total income of the top 1%, and over a third of the total income of the top 0.1%, a much higher share than for those with lower incomes. Partnership and dividend income are taxed at lower rates than normal salaries – a policy choice to tax the incomes of business owners at lower rates than employees, which therefore benefits a significant share of the top 1%.

Do you agree with IR35 reforms then as that will improve equality?

#tongueincheek

[ShandyDrinker]

I agree with this but I'm not sure I have the answers.
Brexit protectionism is a sham as all it will do is protect the lowest grade numbskulls.

The wealthy will always remain wealthy. Always have and always will. As long as we are a capitalist society with a monarchy it will always be so.
We are a lot more equal than 50 years ago, but less equal than 20 years ago.


oh. and it's not the 1%. It's the 0.01%.
Most posters one here are close to, or in, the 1%

Agree with most of what you say.

Per this from the IFS, invoicing from the last few years would put my company around the top 1% mark but only just. I would imagine most contractors on here are comfortably in the top 5%, if not, certainly 10%.

[Lance]

Although deep for a Monday, the system really does need rebalancing to give the little guy a fighting chance - it's no coincidence that the 1% have become even more obscenely wealthy during the pandemic, while everyone else suffers and will do so for a long time to come.

I agree with this but I'm not sure I have the answers.
Brexit protectionism is a sham as all it will do is protect the lowest grade numbskulls.

The wealthy will always remain wealthy. Always have and always will. As long as we are a capitalist society with a monarchy it will always be so.
We are a lot more equal than 50 years ago, but less equal than 20 years ago.


oh. and it's not the 1%. It's the 0.01%.
Most posters one here are close to, or in, the 1%

[ShandyDrinker]

25k min. salary for IT but
for skilled chef :
• the pay is at least £29,570 per year after deductions for accommodation, meals etc;

It shows how well valued IT skills are in the UK.