Reply to: This is not how you should interview a contractor!

[WTFH]

It's fun, you just gotta to with the flow. Enjoy the ride.

I guess I am taking the tulip contracts no one else wants? Lol I would have probably gladly took the contract you interviewed for if I wasn't in contract right now.

Nope, you're not taking the contracts no one wants, you're taking the contracts where you have to think. You base the evolving solution on your experience, you get to learn, you leave the project knowing more than when you started and can take that knowledge on to the next place.

When I read about people saying they know it all and everyone must do things exactly the same way, who never learn anything positive from a contract - well they are the ones I wouldn't want to work with on a job. I need to know I've got people with me who are interested, who can think for themselves, who can discuss ideas and take suggestions from others. And the great thing is that you CAN get all that from an interview.

[LondonManc]

Not quite sure how I am unprofessional. I get tulip done, if that's what you consider unprofessional than I guess I am in your eyes.

For what it's worth I also primarily do erp data migrations and I've yet to walk into a contract that had good documentation. I have primarily worked on mid range erp projects though, doing a business central one right now migrating from a no name erp system that's running on a 30 year old version of an informix database.

At least 50% of my projects I am migrating from systems that don't have a data dictionary and I have to define and map the data myself. Quite often 90% of the people (sometimes everyone but me) involved in the project have never done a erp migration before.

It's fun, you just gotta to with the flow. Enjoy the ride.

I guess I am taking the tulip contracts no one else wants? Lol I would have probably gladly took the contract you interviewed for if I wasn't in contract right now.

This. You're generally migrating off something because it's old, not very supportable, no longer fit for purpose or a combination thereof.
Even more so where bespoke systems were all the rage 15-20 years ago and are now reaching end of life and an olf-the-shelf solution seems more sensible.

[SussexSeagull]

We all have shocking interviews from time to time, I certainly have, but at the moment I would be nodding along to anything if it got me a few months of billing.

[jayn200]

So would I in most cases, but this is not how this interview was conducted. And it became apparent that this project lacks ownership of the business requirements and because of the complex nature of the application (which also lacks the crucial testing coverage or documentation) you will inevitably miss requirements or make an error with the functionality at some point. The entire liability of this migration is on you. I've worked with consultancies, they would never ever make themselves entirely liable like this. But they also have the power to set things right from the begining (and this doesn't happen overnight). A single developer could deliberatly putting their neck on the line here; I'm surprised how naive people in this forum are.

Also I did not really blow my interview. I asked a few competent questions; The questions stumped him, whereas in the case of a previous interview for a migration project it resulted in a very good conversation.

Finally, the interview process in general is really flawed. Making contractors do random coding challenges is also pointless. In this interview, if the person does not ask the right sort of questions and his expectations about the role are not clear, they're going to find themselves in a lot of trouble after and likely to leave with unfinished or poorly done work. Jayn200's quote from the previous post is a good example of this sort of unprofessionalism:

Not quite sure how I am unprofessional. I get tulip done, if that's what you consider unprofessional than I guess I am in your eyes.

For what it's worth I also primarily do erp data migrations and I've yet to walk into a contract that had good documentation. I have primarily worked on mid range erp projects though, doing a business central one right now migrating from a no name erp system that's running on a 30 year old version of an informix database.

At least 50% of my projects I am migrating from systems that don't have a data dictionary and I have to define and map the data myself. Quite often 90% of the people (sometimes everyone but me) involved in the project have never done a erp migration before.

It's fun, you just gotta to with the flow. Enjoy the ride.

I guess I am taking the tulip contracts no one else wants? Lol I would have probably gladly took the contract you interviewed for if I wasn't in contract right now.

[cyborg1337]

So when you want to bring in subbies, are you funding them or are you expecting the client to?

This is why it's very important that expectations are in line from the very start.

More than happy to take a significant cut and fund a sub-contractor to ensure a project is delivered to a high standard (limited duration of course). Client satisifcation has always been important to me - I hate the idea of leaving my work unfinished or done to a poor standard.

[perplexed]

The majority of my previous contracts have been struggling clients who have needed help. It's never been about me wanting things to be in neat little boxes; My contracts have been far from that; Migration projects in particular are far from that.

You are very naive, if you think a single contractor can just come in and solve this particular mess. There is also a huge liabilty on the person doing this project because of a lack of ownership of the business requirements.

PS: I am successful contractor; Been in the industry for a while; Worked on some really challenging projects.

So when you want to bring in subbies, are you funding them or are you expecting the client to?

[cyborg1337]

If an agent called me up tomorrow and said "I have a client that is willing to pay 600/day and needs someone to start monday, they think your profile is a good fit but i haven't seen a job spec and they don't have time to do an interview. Are you interested? Can you start Monday?"

I would say "Yes send me the contract, ill get it signed right away and be there Monday."
.

So would I in most cases, but this is not how this interview was conducted. And it became apparent that this project lacks ownership of the business requirements and because of the complex nature of the application (which also lacks the crucial testing coverage or documentation) you will inevitably miss requirements or make an error with the functionality at some point. The entire liability of this migration is on you. I've worked with consultancies, they would never ever make themselves entirely liable like this. But they also have the power to set things right from the begining (and this doesn't happen overnight). A single developer could deliberatly putting their neck on the line here; I'm surprised how naive people in this forum are.

Also I did not really blow my interview. I asked a few competent questions; The questions stumped him, whereas in the case of a previous interview for a migration project it resulted in a very good conversation.

Finally, the interview process in general is really flawed. Making contractors do random coding challenges is also pointless. In this interview, if the person does not ask the right sort of questions and his expectations about the role are not clear, they're going to find themselves in a lot of trouble after and likely to leave with unfinished or poorly done work. Jayn200's quote from the previous post is a good example of this sort of unprofessionalism:

...I don't actually really care. You figure that all out on the first couple weeks and you can always leave anyway.

[jayn200]

The majority of my previous contracts have been struggling clients who have needed help. It's never been about me wanting things to be in neat little boxes; My contracts have been far from that; Migration projects in particular are far from that.

PS: I am successful contractpr; Been in the industry for a while; Worked on some really challenging projects.

I guess I just don't understand why it shocks you that the person interviewing you doesn't have any answers to technical questions for you. Maybe you are very competent for your job but from your explanation it doesn't look like you handled the interview well. That is quite common for technical people even really strong ones, I've blown lots of interviews over the years.

Personally, I also don't hold the traditional viewpoint that interviews are 2 way. We are competing for work. I usually ask about the team and the problem but that's more just for the sake of being conversational and letting the interview flow a little better and also it's expected these days, I don't actually really care. You figure that all out on the first couple weeks and you can always leave anyway.

If an agent called me up tomorrow and said "I have a client that is willing to pay 600/day and needs someone to start monday, they think your profile is a good fit but i haven't seen a job spec and they don't have time to do an interview. Are you interested? Can you start Monday?"

I would say "Yes send me the contract, ill get it signed right away and be there Monday."

If I have multiple contract offers I assess them based off the day rate, starting date, hours worked, working location (home, close by, long commute), payment terms not based off whether i think the work is easy or not but again maybe that's just me. I am little unusual.

[cyborg1337]

The interview very rarely gives you any clue of what the gig will be like so making the interviewer squirm is not good. Best interview I ever had was 'I haven't got a clue if you are any good and can't ask you pertinent questions as I'm not a techie but we'll sack you asap if you don't know your stuff, can you start tomorrow ?'

Yeah I had an interview like that before! Contract worked out really well for both of us.

[cyborg1337]

To be a successful contractor it helps to be an excellent problem solver and to be confident in your ability to solve those problems with limited information. This is just how it is due to the shorter duration. You don't have 6 months to on board and get trained.

Companies quite often don't know the answer to the questions you're asking, that's why they're bringing in a contractor. Quite often they don't even know what their real problem is or how to explain it. That's quite often part of the process. They just understand something isn't working or that they need to deliver something but they're not always sure what that is.

That's quite normal of a situation. If you're uncomfortable with that level of ambiguity than maybe it's not for you.

Previously there have been tons of permi positions set up as contract roles as a tax dodge that would work well for you. Unfortunately those are all going to disappear if they haven't already with new ir35 changes.

It sounds like this contract wouldn't have been good for you anyway because you appear to like everything in a neat little box and this company probably has a messy problem they want a contractor to clean up and that's just now what you do.

So it's good they bring you on board and it's good for you you didn't get it because you probably wouldn't have excelled there. Nothing wrong with that.

But there is also nothing wrong with the company seeking out a contractor in their current situation. I don't think they did anything wrong, just wasn't a good match. That's why there is an interview.

The majority of my previous contracts have been struggling clients who have needed help. It's never been about me wanting things to be in neat little boxes; My contracts have been far from that; Migration projects in particular are far from that.

You are very naive, if you think a single contractor can just come in and solve this particular mess. There is also a huge liabilty on the person doing this project because of a lack of ownership of the business requirements.

PS: I am successful contractor; Been in the industry for a while; Worked on some really challenging projects.

[rootsnall]

The interview very rarely gives you any clue of what the gig will be like so making the interviewer squirm is not good. Best interview I ever had was 'I haven't got a clue if you are any good and can't ask you pertinent questions as I'm not a techie but we'll sack you asap if you don't know your stuff, can you start tomorrow ?'

[jayn200]

To be a successful contractor it helps to be an excellent problem solver and to be confident in your ability to solve those problems with limited information. This is just how it is due to the shorter duration. You don't have 6 months to on board and get trained.

Companies quite often don't know the answer to the questions you're asking, that's why they're bringing in a contractor. Quite often they don't even know what their real problem is or how to explain it. That's quite often part of the process. They just understand something isn't working or that they need to deliver something but they're not always sure what that is.

That's quite normal of a situation. If you're uncomfortable with that level of ambiguity than maybe it's not for you.

Previously there have been tons of permi positions set up as contract roles as a tax dodge that would work well for you. Unfortunately those are all going to disappear if they haven't already with new ir35 changes.

It sounds like this contract wouldn't have been good for you anyway because you appear to like everything in a neat little box and this company probably has a messy problem they want a contractor to clean up and that's just not what you do.

So it's good they didn't bring you on board and it's good for you you didn't get it because you probably wouldn't have excelled there. Nothing wrong with that.

But there is also nothing wrong with the company seeking out a contractor in their current situation. I don't think they did anything wrong, just wasn't a good match. That's why there is an interview.

[WTFH]

Yes I have led a successful migration project, judged by my team and stakeholders and we had many good learnings from it.

The fact that you used the word "my" tells me you haven't.

[BritishLad88]

1. Exactly, they need to hire a specialist; So I am asking specialist questions. I should be getting the answers I need so that I can quanity the size of the project, processes etc...

2. Worked with many consultancies who have spent alot of time and resource trying to transition companies from Waterfall to Agile. Not something that just happens; There needs to be a certain amount of influence from top-down.

3. I've been through this before. I've led another big migration project where I also had mentor a junior. Additional resource will be needed - Also worked on a great project before where the contractor leading the project hired developers, designers he worked with previously / There are benefits of working with people you worked with before / Also getting sub-contractors should be an option available to me, especially if we are dealing with big/complex projects.

4. Like I said I've led a big migration project; These are high risk, alot of problems can crop up which slow down or block progress. I asked them how do we ensure the business requirements in the new application work exactly like in the old application, and tried understanding if the current application has unit tests, end-to-tests etc... The answer I got was it doesn't have these; Well that's a huge risk there; Plus with the lack of a product owner there is nobody to take responsability of these requirements.

BritishLad88 - Have you ever led a migration project before? Have you ever led a company to transition to agile?

Regarding your points:
1 - i agree

2 - maybe its me but you're making it sound as if its not agile then its wrong that kinda thing, Waterfall still completely fine just that its no longer the most efficient methodology


3 - I agree also that there are benefits working with past colleagues.
but your statement:
"Also getting sub-contractors should be an option available to me, especially if we are dealing with big/complex projects."
feels a bit naive to me. I wouldn't use the word "should". Have you ever thought that the client simply doesn't have the budget/capacity or whatever other reasons they may have to have another sub-contractor onboard?. The way you said that just sounds like you should be calling the shots & that you should be able to bring your own team in as you wish...

4 - i appreciate your wealth of experience in working in a migration project and know it all. So if that's the case, you could at least try to take on the position, bring yourself on board first to get a better understanding of the project details in hand then slowly try to convince that client to allow you bring additional helpers on board.
But it looks like you've completely rejected the chance outright.

And no, I haven't lead a migration project before neither lead agile transformation. I am just offering my views based on what you've wrote. Feel free to disregard my views if it is not what you want to hear.

[simes]

I asked how complex the product is, and I'm told quite complex. What does quite complex mean without me seeing it? I wanted details but I wasn't really getting much from him.

I think the chap above who said both parties dodged a bullet was fair enough. But really, as a contractor, you're a supplier who should hopefully ask the right questions to elicit the pertinent answers.

Referencing your complexity question, you rather set the scene for just such a closed answer.

Please can you describe the complexities of the project?
Please can you describe the top five issues of the project?
What are the pinch points?

These are open questions that will require substance and subjectivity. Once you have the answers you can decide for yourself just How Complex it really is.

I might be wrong in this case, but interviews are good for seeing how the other's mind works. For both parties. And like it or not, the interviewee is holding all the cards if he doesn't think the right questions are being asked, or the right answers being teased out.