Reply to: Decisions...decisions...Perm vs Contract

[elsergiovolador]

If you're not interested in learning, there's no point in me repeating myself.



Perm roles for critical, high value positions, contracts for others. And no, I don't just mean value = £££ per hour, neither do I expect many rolling contracts. The cost and effort is too high.

Companies do not reduce their long-term costs by putting in contractors. They should be putting in contractors who are highly skilled to fulfil specific project-related roles. They can bring in temp staff for maternity cover, etc, but they don't need the hassle of contractors for that.

I think you are referring to the current regulations, but the new changes coming in April next year are game changing. It offers flexibility for companies so that they don't have to worry about unions, equal pay and other things they have to accommodate currently. They will get all the benefits of employment without the negatives. Permanent employment will be a privilege afforded only to the core staff.

[WTFH]

What are the advantages of employment contract over inside IR35 for an employer to even consider it?

If you're not interested in learning, there's no point in me repeating myself.

The new norm will be perm roles for core staff and rest will work on rolling inside IR35.

Perm roles for critical, high value positions, contracts for others. And no, I don't just mean value = £££ per hour, neither do I expect many rolling contracts. The cost and effort is too high.

Companies do not reduce their long-term costs by putting in contractors. They should be putting in contractors who are highly skilled to fulfil specific project-related roles. They can bring in temp staff for maternity cover, etc, but they don't need the hassle of contractors for that.

[BR14]

autosergie

[elsergiovolador]

Because sometimes businesses want someone for more than a couple of years.
Because businesses have plans that are different to individuals who think they are companies
Because businesses are looking to the future and need experience and quality, not just cheap.
Because the cost of onboarding a contractor is considerably higher than onboarding a permie.

Lots of reasons, just because they might not be obvious to you doesn't make them invalid.

And how that gives an incentive to give perm contract?

What are the advantages of employment contract over inside IR35 for an employer to even consider it?

The new norm will be perm roles for core staff and rest will work on rolling inside IR35.

[WTFH]

Why companies would hire permies if they can just issue inside contracts? It is more likely that rates will drop significantly and we will see 200 per day inside contracts as a new norm and only few perm job offers for core staff.

Because sometimes businesses want someone for more than a couple of years.
Because businesses have plans that are different to individuals who think they are companies
Because businesses are looking to the future and need experience and quality, not just cheap.
Because the cost of onboarding a contractor is considerably higher than onboarding a permie.

Lots of reasons, just because they might not be obvious to you doesn't make them invalid.

[elsergiovolador]

Soon it will be worthwhile to be a contractor again.

Not because the day rates will rise, but because the permie salaries will drop when companies will start to hire again and all these folk who are now unemployed will be accepting whatever they're given.

Why companies would hire permies if they can just issue inside contracts? It is more likely that rates will drop significantly and we will see 200 per day inside contracts as a new norm and only few perm job offers for core staff.

[PCTNN]

If the input rate is sufficiently high to make it worth your while, then it's still worth doing.

Soon it will be worthwhile to be a contractor again.

Not because the day rates will rise, but because the permie salaries will drop when companies will start to hire again and all these folk who are now unemployed will be accepting whatever they're given.

[PerfectStorm]

The "inside" is not only about rate but also about how you engage with the client. It is basically perm, but without any benefits.
Sure you can negotiate more autonomy, not having to participate in performance reviews, employee parties, but why would your deemed employer agree to that.
It's over and the alternative has been closed off. The liability is too big for companies to consider "outside" contract past April.

In the same way a lot of 'outside IR35' roles had inside elements - I suspect a great many 'inside IR35' roles involve outside elements - where things like performance reviews, company cheerleading and general backstabbing/politics aren't part of the role where they would be for fully fledged permanent staff.

They were contractors before and they'll be contractors after, you're not suddenly going to be treated like you have a career with the client.

[elsergiovolador]

The "inside" is not only about rate but also about how you engage with the client. It is basically perm, but without any benefits.
Sure you can negotiate more autonomy, not having to participate in performance reviews, employee parties, but why would your deemed employer agree to that.
It's over and the alternative has been closed off. The liability is too big for companies to consider "outside" contract past April.

[PerfectStorm]

If the role is outside ir35, then it's still better to take the contract over the permanent job.

In general, for roles inside ir35 (so pretty much all the roles in banking), I see less and less advantages in being a contractor. We're fast approaching 50% take home pay.

If the input rate is sufficiently high to make it worth your while, then it's still worth doing.

Before IR35 changes were pulled, I was in talks with a client to do exactly that. My leverage was "what you're doing is a choice, therefore you must pay for that choice, and you have the option of doing what we were doing before for free". Used an in/out IR35 calculator to work out what the new rate would be - something in the order of an extra £200 a day. They said yes.

[PCTNN]

If the role is outside ir35, then it's still better to take the contract over the permanent job.

In general, for roles inside ir35 (so pretty much all the roles in banking), I see less and less advantages in being a contractor. We're fast approaching 50% take home pay.

[Old Greg]

Unfortunately the dictionery was in the half I didn't take.

FTFY

[northernladuk]

Would you like some spelling advise?

Unfortunately the dictionary was in the half I didn't take.

[Old Greg]

And half the stationary cupboard

Would you like some spelling advise?

[LondonManc]

Take the contract role - you either like it or don't like it, or they extend or serve notice, but then you just get the next contract.

I'd say it's even simpler - why look at perm if you want to be a contractor?