Reply to: IR35 reportedly amended to exclude wholly overseas organisations..?

[MPwannadecentincome]

Oh no... I was thinking of that for probable future 100% remote contract with clients in EU.
The recruitment company would therefore need to be completely outside of the UK. I'm not sure what would happen if the client paid the recruitment company a finder's fee.

Do you remember who Linkedin user was? Was it Dave Chaplin again?

Either Dave Chaplin or offpayroll.org.uk I think

[rocktronAMP]

no no no no ... WHOLLY OVERSEAS means no UK presence at all. HMRC will go after the UK branch. I can't find the link now but there was a discussion on LinkedIn about this yesterday.

Oh no... I was thinking of that for probable future 100% remote contract with clients in EU.
The recruitment company would therefore need to be completely outside of the UK. I'm not sure what would happen if the client paid the recruitment company a finder's fee.

Do you remember who Linkedin user was? Was it Dave Chaplin again?

[MPwannadecentincome]

I'd say its a fully outsourced service - it is a SAP consultancy doing a SAP implementation.

The more complicated bit - which I just realised I left out is.....

e -> My Ltd -> uK Agency -> French consultancy -> French branch of large International company -> on site at UK branch of same large company that uses contractors

If anything, I'd say its the french branch of the company thats the end client.

no no no no ... WHOLLY OVERSEAS means no UK presence at all. HMRC will go after the UK branch. I can't find the link now but there was a discussion on LinkedIn about this yesterday.

[mookiemoo]

Which is a good reason to stay quiet on it all - if HMRC come sniffing, it will be the Agent who has failed to obtain or pass on a determination. The agency will be liable - you’re home and dry


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

Thats sort of what I'm doing - I have an email from them confirming outside IR35 - and I'm not about to go rocking the boat.

[yorkshirespud]

Which is a good reason to stay quiet on it all - if HMRC come sniffing, it will be the Agent who has failed to obtain or pass on a determination. The agency will be liable - you’re home and dry


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[eek]

I'd say its a fully outsourced service - it is a SAP consultancy doing a SAP implementation.

The more complicated bit - which I just realised I left out is.....

e -> My Ltd -> uK Agency -> French consultancy -> French branch of large International company -> on site at UK branch of same large company that uses contractors

If anything, I'd say its the french branch of the company thats the end client.

It is still the UK Agency that needs to do the determination and they will be the only people who care enough to do it when you tell them someone needs to and the liability is their's if they don't,

[mookiemoo]

I'd say its a fully outsourced service - it is a SAP consultancy doing a SAP implementation.

The more complicated bit - which I just realised I left out is.....

e -> My Ltd -> uK Agency -> French consultancy -> French branch of large International company -> on site at UK branch of same large company that uses contractors

If anything, I'd say its the french branch of the company thats the end client.

[jamesbrown]

Its all about me, I know but...

Me -> My Ltd -> uK Agency -> French consultancy -> UK Large company that uses contractors

1. UK large company that uses contractors doesn't see me as one of their contractors as I'm not doing work for them but for the consultancy doing the implementation - says I'm no different to them than Jacques Cousteau from Paris.

2. French consultancy - What is ir35? You're working on a french project and the only person on site in the UK purely to enable comms.

3. Agency - of course its outside IR35. Hoe can you be under SD&C since you are the only person in the UK and anyway, you have a French contract not a UK one. And here's an email confirming its outside of IR35

4. Me - confused.com but carrying on BAU

The UK agency is the Fee Payer and either the French Consultancy or the the UK LargeCo is the end client, depending on the specific nature of the contract (for labour or a fully outsourced service). Either way, the UK agency is at risk as a UK entity within the supply chain above your PSC, so they better pull their head out and request an SDS and then operate on it. The risk to you and YourCo is less of a concern, but you should continue with your due diligence.

[eek]

Its all about me, I know but...

Me -> My Ltd -> uK Agency -> French consultancy -> UK Large company that uses contractors

1. UK large company that uses contractors doesn't see me as one of their contractors as I'm not doing work for them but for the consultancy doing the implementation - says I'm no different to them than Jacques Cousteau from Paris.

2. French consultancy - What is ir35? You're working on a french project and the only person on site in the UK purely to enable comms.

3. Agency - of course its outside IR35. Hoe can you be under SD&C since you are the only person in the UK and anyway, you have a French contract not a UK one. And here's an email confirming its outside of IR35

4. Me - confused.com but carrying on BAU

You ideally need a determination but you aren't going to get one unless the UK agency get's organised and provides it to you. Now it should say outside but it is up to the agency to handle...

[northernladuk]

1. UK large company that uses contractors doesn't see me as one of their contractors as I'm not doing work for them but for the consultancy doing the implementation - says I'm no different to them than Jacques Cousteau from Paris.

Dead?

[mookiemoo]

And still non the wiser.......

Its all about me, I know but...

Me -> My Ltd -> uK Agency -> French consultancy -> UK Large company that uses contractors

1. UK large company that uses contractors doesn't see me as one of their contractors as I'm not doing work for them but for the consultancy doing the implementation - says I'm no different to them than Jacques Cousteau from Paris.

2. French consultancy - What is ir35? You're working on a french project and the only person on site in the UK purely to enable comms.

3. Agency - of course its outside IR35. Hoe can you be under SD&C since you are the only person in the UK and anyway, you have a French contract not a UK one. And here's an email confirming its outside of IR35

4. Me - confused.com but carrying on BAU

[eek]

I think he is not asking whether he will be paying tax in the UK, but rather whether he will be declared outside IR35 with this "new legislation". My take however is that it will apply when your client is outside the UK?

The question I was answering was

What's the difference flying into London for 3 days on site vs taking the train down from Northern England? Probably cheaper.

And the answer is that apart from the cost of the flight nothing changes as you will be in the UK often enough for HMRC to deem you working in the UK..

[skysies]

3 days a week here every week and you will be expected to pay UK tax anyway..

I think he is not asking whether he will be paying tax in the UK, but rather whether he will be declared outside IR35 with this "new legislation". My take however is that it will apply when your client is outside the UK?

[skysies]

Is that right? Spanish company with work carried out by Spanish resident with 3 days on UK site. Apologies if I'm being thick here.

Do you need to establish a non-residency in the UK for that to work? Working 3 days onsite in the UK will put you above the min number of days they allow, which is very few indeed.

[oliverson]

3 days a week here every week and you will be expected to pay UK tax anyway..

Is that right? Spanish company with work carried out by Spanish resident with 3 days on UK site. Apologies if I'm being thick here.