Reply to: Deutsche - FTC with day rate?

[Andy Hallett]

Offpayroll says it ia true.

Is it me or if you were onsite and had just signed a paye contract on the 6th then been offered a new one back with a PSC wouldn't that ring massive alarm bells for most?!?!

The risk is on the PSC, but I don't think the two would be pieced together outside of an investigation.

[Hawkeye]

so will RS tear up the PAYE contracts at this 11th hour ?

(news to follow)....

Offpayroll says it ia true.

Is it me or if you were onsite and had just signed a paye contract on the 6th then been offered a new one back with a PSC wouldn't that ring massive alarm bells for most?!?!

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

so will RS tear up the PAYE contracts at this 11th hour ?

(news to follow)....

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

Just been scaring myself reading this

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...tigations.html

Do we know if RS have actually commented as per @compliancelady

"I've spoken to clients about this - how you can say from April we want to offer you contract X but this has no bearing on your current contract. Those that value contractors and are more on the medium sized end of the spectrum are happy to manage this in a way that doesn't expose contractors to more risk."

[Bugbait]

Is this the re-issued contract we got sent ?

The re-issued contract doesn't contain any changes to the original clauses, no material/obvious ones anyway. RS are not the employer, they are acting as an Agency who are representing you to clients. There are a couple of clauses which are not enforceable since they contravene "The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003" - Section 12. There are other clauses as have been previously alluded to that make the contract effectively Zero Hour and not Fixed Term. Only those that desperately need the money would even think of signing it in my opinion.

I believe most will stay since they're pretty much permitractors or have the mindset of one.

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

That's what you'd think, right? Basically, the contract puts you in limbo. RS acts as your employer but they're not your employer. In short, they wash their hands of you is my interpretation.

N.B. I am not renewing under PAYE - I've just seen the template.

Is this the re-issued contract we got sent ?

[DigitalUser]

Who is your employer then, the end client?

That's what you'd think, right? Basically, the contract puts you in limbo. RS acts as your employer but they're not your employer. In short, they wash their hands of you is my interpretation.

N.B. I am not renewing under PAYE - I've just seen the template.

[LondonManc]

The RS PAYE template is something to behold. You're reduced to a zero-hours worker with potentially no notice period. Oh, by the way, according to the contract, you're not employed by RS (which somewhat defeats the purpose of being PAYE).

Who is your employer then, the end client?

[DigitalUser]

actually the paye with RS and then into permie is kind of the worse of the lot

RS will have to give your name up to HMRC and so you are then on the hook.

like we know

hmrc have said they promised they will be nice .. and they have to raise a dead ltd back to life (assuming they allowed the strike off in the first place !) so maybe we are worried over nothing

he said worriedly

The RS PAYE template is something to behold. You're reduced to a zero-hours worker with potentially no notice period. Oh, by the way, according to the contract, you're not employed by RS (which somewhat defeats the purpose of being PAYE).

[Snooky]

More pertinently, they'll be opening a whole can of worms in terms of back claims against the client for unpaid holidays, etc. for those being investigated who have significant tenure. HMRC will suddenly become public enemy number one with most large firms who have had long-tenure contractors.

Only problem there is, according to Make a claim to an employment tribunal - GOV.UK, "you usually have to make a claim to the tribunal within 3 months of your employment ending or the problem happening". So if HMRC come calling while you're still at ClientCo, this would definitely be an option, but if they do the same kind of heel-dragging we saw with the Loan Charge, you could have moved on many years previously so an employment claim would be impossible.

But I do agree with you, it only takes one or two very disgruntled still-in-post contractors making an ET claim, especially if they can produce an inside-IR35 status determination, to scare the absolute bejesus out of all other clients and get them screaming at HMG to rein HMRC in.

Whether HMRC are smart enough to realise that and hold off until a year or so after the contractor has moved on, I have no idea. Their normal bull-in-a-china-shop bully boy tactics would imply not.

[LondonManc]

actually the paye with RS and then into permie is kind of the worse of the lot

RS will have to give your name up to HMRC and so you are then on the hook.

like we know

hmrc have said they promised they will be nice .. and they have to raise a dead ltd back to life (assuming they allowed the strike off in the first place !) so maybe we are worried over nothing

he said worriedly

More pertinently, they'll be opening a whole can of worms in terms of back claims against the client for unpaid holidays, etc. for those being investigated who have significant tenure. HMRC will suddenly become public enemy number one with most large firms who have had long-tenure contractors.

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

actually the paye with RS and then into permie is kind of the worse of the lot

RS will have to give your name up to HMRC and so you are then on the hook.

like we know

hmrc have said they promised they will be nice .. and they have to raise a dead ltd back to life (assuming they allowed the strike off in the first place !) so maybe we are worried over nothing

he said worriedly

[Mephisto]

But HMRC have pinky-promised that they won't.

[ChimpMaster]

Finally had an email today... Ban on PSCs as expected...

Choices:
-Brolly (strict list of 4 so no using Lucy/Clarity which is a bit tulip)
-PAYE
-Bench (see thread: State of the Market)
-Retire (too young/broke)
-Cark-it (....)

Everyone has asked for an uplift (shocker) so waiting to see what will happen there.

Joy

Has everyone also asked for back-taxes to be paid when HMRC come after you all next year?

[LondonManc]

A few people have mentioned that they are going to push people to go perm when the 45 week tenure is up and those that are not must be out for 12 weeks before they are to return to the bank.

Sounds like the old AZ rule from years ago