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Deutsche - FTC with day rate?

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    Deutsche - FTC with day rate?

    OffpayrollUK comment from Deutsche Bank bod.

    "Actually really pleased with the outcome. Been offered a very respectable day rate on PAYE including Pension, 35 days hols, WFH, same perks as permies. When I enquired why contractors are getting the same Perks as permies I was advised the Bank does not want the flexible workforce to worry or stress about the IR35 situation. The only financial organisation I beleive NOT shafting their contractors! I will happily stay a year or two. Well done DB! WELL DONE! ??????"

    "the Bank does not want the flexible workforce to worry or stress about the IR35 situation" - Yeah, ok, sure, no self interest in this offer at all.

    A lot of detail missing in the above, but knowing also it's a 45 week tenure, this looks to be an arms length FTC with day rate. Poster looks happy with day rate (although I've seen contractors happy with a packet of peanuts and a fruitshoot TBH).

    Could be a useful halfway house model, if a day rate is used it would not step on the toes of those pay bands the FS clients love. Shrink the FTC to 6 month rolling and keep upping the rate, could be something to watch.

    #2
    Day Rates come out ofdiffernt budgets to salaries, so this isn't really an FTC in the traditional sense, although it has all the same benefits. Interesting concept though.

    However in another way it weakens the case. We're trying to get clients to work with deliverables-based contracts as service providers. Having a time-limited engagement is heading in the opposite direction.
    Blog? What blog...?

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      #3
      Originally posted by malvolio View Post
      Day Rates come out ofdiffernt budgets to salaries, so this isn't really an FTC in the traditional sense, although it has all the same benefits. Interesting concept though.

      However in another way it weakens the case. We're trying to get clients to work with deliverables-based contracts as service providers. Having a time-limited engagement is heading in the opposite direction.
      If that is how a company wishes to manage a project it's up to them. And if you are developing in an agile methodology most companies would prefer to sell x days of development with delivery prioritised within the sprints that time has bought...

      You come from an era of waterfall development which really isn't the modern PM way...
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by malvolio View Post
        Day Rates come out ofdiffernt budgets to salaries, so this isn't really an FTC in the traditional sense, although it has all the same benefits. Interesting concept though.

        However in another way it weakens the case. We're trying to get clients to work with deliverables-based contracts as service providers. Having a time-limited engagement is heading in the opposite direction.
        I think in the longer term you'll have two models - this FTC based for traditional inside roles (which I suggested a couple of weeks ago) and an outside traditional model where CEST tool has proven outside. Means that Deutsche can run the tool before advertising the role and push it out as the FTC advert or traditional contract advert.
        The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by malvolio View Post
          Day Rates come out ofdiffernt budgets to salaries, so this isn't really an FTC in the traditional sense, although it has all the same benefits. Interesting concept though.

          However in another way it weakens the case. We're trying to get clients to work with deliverables-based contracts as service providers. Having a time-limited engagement is heading in the opposite direction.
          I read the OffpayrollUK comment as the bank trying to keep hold or re-secure their permie-tractor base. I don't see FS dealing with Ltd/PSC in any meaningful way ever again. But rates can rise in the FTC-like model as the market adapts.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by LetterBox View Post
            I read the OffpayrollUK comment as the bank trying to keep hold or re-secure their permie-tractor base. I don't see FS dealing with Ltd/PSC in any meaningful way ever again. But rates can rise in the FTC-like model as the market adapts.
            One advantage of FTC contracts in the finance sector is they won't be able to use their favourite take a 20% cut or you are out approach that they used to love.
            merely at clientco for the entertainment

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by LondonManc View Post
              I think in the longer term you'll have two models - this FTC based for traditional inside roles (which I suggested a couple of weeks ago) and an outside traditional model where CEST tool has proven outside. Means that Deutsche can run the tool before advertising the role and push it out as the FTC advert or traditional contract advert.
              Absolutely, as long as the FTC is rate based and not traditional pro-rata it should work as the market then dictates rates, additional benefits can then be balanced for sweetners.

              IF Deutsche have made this work with Resource Solutions and after the "I'm leaving", "bye then", "looking for outside only contracts" contractor knee jerk has died down, if Deutsche-like models are noticed by other FS's as pulling in skilled contractors, it could be the new norm.

              I'll keep my company ticking over in any case, SOW with clear determination on short term projects is still desired personally.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by LetterBox View Post

                "Actually really pleased with the outcome. Been offered a very respectable day rate on PAYE including Pension, 35 days hols,
                Thanks for posting, consider my (and possibly other seasoned pros.) with one Carlo Ancelotti sized eyebrow raised.

                Speculation: One of the HR MD's is on holiday and one of the junior HR staff had to make a Friday afternoon decision after doing 4 pints of cider and 2 grams of Wham! at lunchtime in all-bar-one......

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                  #9
                  This seems to be becoming a small "thing" - a friend and former colleague is working at a client who are in the process of moving at least some of their contractors onto a FTC using a formula along the lines of salary = old day rate * days worked in typical year * uplift, where uplift is calculated on a case-by-case basis to make the option approximately neutral in terms of take-home pay for the former contractor.

                  Historically this would never fly, partly because the cost to the client is obviously greater than pre-reform, but mostly as internal salary scales would have to be blown wide open, which is awkward as hell in terms of internal corporate politics. But perhaps attitudes are very slowly starting to change. It might not be the worst possible model going forwards - I must admit if I were offered a role on this basis I would probably say yes.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bluenose View Post
                    Thanks for posting, consider my (and possibly other seasoned pros.) with one Carlo Ancelotti sized eyebrow raised.

                    Speculation: One of the HR MD's is on holiday and one of the junior HR staff had to make a Friday afternoon decision after doing 4 pints of cider and 2 grams of Wham! at lunchtime in all-bar-one......


                    I'm at Db (though via NTT/DD) and have heard 'nafink' as they say down here. Yet I am seeing a raft of people on that offpayroll website stating Db have banned PSCs and all must go PAYE via ResourceSolutions (not my pimp).
                    Permietractor (probably)

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