Reply to: Working for a consultancy for a client project of theres (and rate shenanigans)

[Lance]

If the market is as hot as the previous poster says, you wouldn't be in competition with 100s of highly skilled contractors. If the market is hot enough, you might not be in competition with any at all. And if it's easy to learn, then you've got the skills. You've just got to find a client who's okay with you not having so much experience and might be tolerant of you taking a bit longer or needing more support from the rest of the team. Stands to reason that if the skills are in such demand, you'll have a bigger chance of finding a client like that.

I'm not saying that anyone could just come in off the street and fake it, but if it's a product that's closely related to other Microsoft products and works like other Microsoft tools that I already know, then it might be worth a look.

"SQL developer" roles have been around for over 20 years. Trying to get work with with no experience in industry is 'faking it'. Without lying about experience you don't stand a chance.
You might get a permie job for £20k like that but not a specialist role.

A hot market, with little supply to feed it, doesn't mean clients are going to buy tulip. They'll pay more, wait or do something else (buy it from TCS/Wipro for example).

[hairymouse]

Probably fairly easy to learn. Very difficult to get the many demonstrable years of experience to even stand a chance against 100's of highly skilled contractors.

If the market is as hot as the previous poster says, you wouldn't be in competition with 100s of highly skilled contractors. If the market is hot enough, you might not be in competition with any at all. And if it's easy to learn, then you've got the skills. You've just got to find a client who's okay with you not having so much experience and might be tolerant of you taking a bit longer or needing more support from the rest of the team. Stands to reason that if the skills are in such demand, you'll have a bigger chance of finding a client like that.

I'm not saying that anyone could just come in off the street and fake it, but if it's a product that's closely related to other Microsoft products and works like other Microsoft tools that I already know, then it might be worth a look.

[northernladuk]

Really? I see roles come up every once in a while, but that's probably just because I do a search for anything with "SQL" . The developer roles seem to be around £400 and up. Is that right?

More importantly, is it hard to learn?

Probably fairly easy to learn. Very difficult to get the many demonstrable years of experience to even stand a chance against 100's of highly skilled contractors.

[password]

FTFY.

Haha yea perhaps. But it was weird. I had previously applied there and they were really happy with my tech. This time around they didn't even ask much tech stuff, the interview was more of a "chemistry type" thing with the partner..

That's why I am inclined to think it was a rate thing. Usually I would assume they got somebody they thought better skilled, but this time I have little reason to think that.. oh well

I am not ignorant to the fact there will always be people better than I.

[hairymouse]

Probably offtopic but for developers and Solution Architects the Dynamics 365 / Power Apps market is booming.

Were it not for the ISV plans I have finding a job would be very easy.

Really? I see roles come up every once in a while, but that's probably just because I do a search for anything with "SQL" . The developer roles seem to be around £400 and up. Is that right?

More importantly, is it hard to learn?

[northernladuk]

Soo.. the consultancy was stringing me along all week and they have finally let me know that the "client has pulled the role".

That is regardless of the fact that I saw the consultancy had re-advertised the role on Monday.

Well they obviously got somebody else better

Let's put the market to the test now

FTFY.

[password]

Soo.. the consultancy was stringing me along all week and they have finally let me know that the "client has pulled the role".

That is regardless of the fact that I saw the consultancy had re-advertised the role on Monday.

Well they obviously got somebody else for a bit cheaper.

Let's put the market to the test now

[password]

Sorry, we all seem to have just glossed over this bit...

Really? Can I ask what niche you must be in to flagrantly defy all others' comments. (Minor humour)

Of course, very happy for you. Hope it all works through. Let us know.

I'm a developer and it seems there are still some roles on offer. I hadn't noticed, but a friend mentioned to me that he has noticed a down tick.

That said, I think he seeks a higher rate than I.

[eek]

Sorry, we all seem to have just glossed over this bit...

Really? Can I ask what niche you must be in to flagrantly defy all others' comments. (Minor humour)

Of course, very happy for you. Hope it all works through. Let us know.

Probably offtopic but for developers and Solution Architects the Dynamics 365 / Power Apps market is booming.

Were it not for the ISV plans I have finding a job would be very easy.

[simes]

Market is kind of good at the moment, so i'm not really sweating just yet.

Sorry, we all seem to have just glossed over this bit...

Really? Can I ask what niche you must be in to flagrantly defy all others' comments. (Minor humour)

Of course, very happy for you. Hope it all works through. Let us know.

[password]

Good luck, keep us posted!

Will do, tomorrow should tell a lot. I imagine they wanted to leave be "stew over the weekend" lol.

[ladymuck]

Good luck, keep us posted!

[password]

You guys are all spot on..

I haven't yet heard back from them, and I think that perhaps the rate shenanigans might have only been a proposal from recruiter (not sure it came from hiring manager). So we shall see.

I'm going to hold powder and see what comes back and decide then.

Market is kind of good at the moment, so i'm not really sweating just yet.

In thinking more about this engagement, looks like they don't have much experience with contractors. So in reality, the contract could actually be the ultimate deal break.

They'll probably take a permie contract and i'll have to have vast swathes of it re-written, which they probably won't want. Any let's cross that bridge if it comes.

Thanks folks.

[simes]

It sounds like game playing, and comments about how much you want the gig etc are spot on.

However, I would counter with some of my own game playing and suggest that if they want to drop the rate for the first three months, that will be fine so long as they up the rate to More than what was previously discussed making sure that by the end of the contract, the pro rata rate for the x month contract leaves you with more in pocket.

And when they stammer, stutter, and fumble about, you say you want it written in the contract for signing by tonight. Or, just leave it as is.

And then hang up.

[MasterBait]

Consultancy has almost 100% margin on your rate.

I worked at Deloitte, day rate £600, agency put 12% on top of that, Deloitte rate to end client (government ) £1200 per day

I know because I had to write the quote for my own extension to the end client