Reply to: Other sectors outside banks halting all contractor renewals

[Paralytic]

Not really, I was due to start at the same client myself so I already knew who it was. Unfortunately it got canned last minute

So, you can share the client your were due to start with. Or did you sign an NDA too?

[edison]

Unfortunately I can't mention the name, my friend is working there under an NDA.

So, he's broken that NDA then?

Not really, I was due to start at the same client myself so I already knew who it was. Unfortunately it got canned last minute

[Paralytic]

Unfortunately I can't mention the name, my friend is working there under an NDA.

So, he's broken that NDA then?

[edison]

Can one ask, which telco?

Unfortunately I can't mention the name, my friend is working there under an NDA.

[mjcp]

I'm sure some HR departments are seeing it as an opportunity to reduce the contractor count and get a pat on the back.
Others may not want to take any responsibility for getting it wrong.

In my end client (£1.4bln manufacturing / tech, ~4500 staff), the HR dept think they are defending the business by replacing any contractors that nudge 2 years... they don't want the contractors to claim employee rights post 2 years.. (we have tried to educate them but they are not listening/understanding)

As a business, they certainly have become aware of their contractor usage, so I'm sure there are some budget holders using it as a way to reduce cost.

As for Responsibility In the same discussions re their view of risk at 2yrs, HR have also made it clear (though I'm not sure they intended to) that they have not even begun to think about how to deal with April! (so being ejected at 2 years might be a blessing in disguise!)

They also didn't seem to understand why we wanted commercial in the room instead of HR ... suddenly my Li/JS profiles now say "actively seeking" - funny that!

mjcp

[simes]

I've heard from a good fiend of mine who's contracting at a telco that they too have decided not to renew any contracts after early 2020 whilst they wait for the IR35 picture to become clearer.

Who's going to be next?

Can one ask, which telco?

[krytonsheep]

just don't get it why the private sector is tuliping their pants

I'm sure some HR departments are seeing it as an opportunity to reduce the contractor count and get a pat on the back.
Others may not want to take any responsibility for getting it wrong.

[WordIsBond]

It only requires an ounce of determination.

It only requires an accurate determination.

[Paralytic]

It was exactly the same in 2017 in the Public sector. Then March came and half organisations accepted some risk around having Inside IR35 contractors in uncharted waters over guaranteed risk of collapsing projects costing them millions.

I just don't get it why the private sector is tuliping their pants - If the public sector managed to muddle through the reform going 3rd year now, how hard could it be... It only requires an ounce of determination.

One big difference.

Private sector (typically) has shareholders to answer to, and leaders have quarterly targets to reach and annual bonuses to earn. A mistake actually hits them in the pocket.

Public sector: make a mistake and either move to another department or retire with your gold-plated pension.

The Public Sector also had the risk of people moving to plentiful supply of outside IR35 contracts in the private sector. Where are people going to move post April 2020?

[sal]

It was exactly the same in 2017 in the Public sector. Then March came and half organisations accepted some risk around having Inside IR35 contractors in uncharted waters over guaranteed risk of collapsing projects costing them millions.

I just don't get it why the private sector is tuliping their pants - If the public sector managed to muddle through the reform going 3rd year now, how hard could it be... It only requires an ounce of determination.

[cojak]

I wonder if any IR35 tax investigation/liability insurers are creating products for end clients?

Not sure how appealing or cost effective it would be though.

The model seems to be pushing the risk and liability down to the contractor.

[CheeseSlice]

I wonder if any IR35 tax investigation/liability insurers are creating products for end clients?

Not sure how appealing or cost effective it would be though.

[Paralytic]

I've heard from a good fiend of mine who's contracting at a telco that they too have decided not to renew any contracts after early 2020 whilst they wait for the IR35 picture to become clearer.

I've been saying for a while that this model is generally where we'll end up, especially for larger clients where legal/risk will drive the decision. Why bother with the hassle of IR35 determination when you can just change your engagement model.

Who's going to be next?

Its not really been discussed much here, but RBS is doing the same.

[BlueSharp]

One big line in the sand drawn kicking out anyone who looks like a permie-tractors will happen at all organisations.

Going forward I hope the projects are structured correctly and outside contracts make a reappearance. Otherwise scarce talent roles will force day rates. MSP have already cottoned on to this and are taking outside contractors on in the public sector, the same will happen in the private sector as the cost saving gives them a competitive advantage even if the end client takes on contractors directly inside ir35.

[vwdan]

I'm contracted to a large multi-national and I've had the dreaded invite to the "IR35 Discussion". I don't imagine it's going to be great news, though it's an interesting one because they recently went through a HUGE outsourcing drive and many internal teams only have contractors now