Reply to: Considering leaving Full Time and start contracting

[WTFH]

...based on what contractors I've met on projects are receiving.

No, not based on what they are actually receiving, but based on your interpretation of what they might have said to you.

I don't know if I would receive the same, but will at least try to negotiate that when the time is right.

It’s highly unlikely you would receive the same for your first few contracts. Experience of different clients, evidence that you’re not a fly-by-night contractor who will go perm at the drop of a hat, etc, etc.

[CFC]

Except you didn't.






Given your current package and your expectations, I think that's probably a good idea.

I did ask, please check my previous posts when I asked if people think I am having right expectations, but all I said was based on what contractors I've met on projects are receiving. I don't know if I would receive the same, but will at least try to negotiate that when the time is right.

Thank you all for your input ! I'll follow closely IR35 and the current legislation.

[Paralytic]

Thanks for all your replies. I didn't say that is what I will get, as I don't know yet what will be end result of discussions around this, I was simply asking a question as to what I would expect to expense from the client. This is all based on prior experience having talked with contractors in the industry.

Except you didn't.

...made it clear to the recruiter, wouldn't be interested in a contract if its not daily rate + expenses, so expenses need to be treated separately.

I've also had a good conversation with a friend who is taking a break from contracting, within the same industry, and put the cause of the break on the IR35 and waiting for the situation to clarify. This has kind of put a dent in my ideas and I think I will wait until after the holiday season, that's just around the corner, before starting to make steps in this direction.

Given your current package and your expectations, I think that's probably a good idea.

[CFC]

He is Boris Johnston

I claim my £5


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If I would have the opportunity, I would claim 50p. Any penny saved, is good at the end of the day, and why spend your hard earn money, if the possibility of expensing it would arise ?

[CFC]

Thanks for all your replies. I didn't say that is what I will get, as I don't know yet what will be end result of discussions around this, I was simply asking a question as to what I would expect to expense from the client. This is all based on prior experience having talked with contractors in the industry.

I've also had a good conversation with a friend who is taking a break from contracting, within the same industry, and put the cause of the break on the IR35 and waiting for the situation to clarify. This has kind of put a dent in my ideas and I think I will wait until after the holiday season, that's just around the corner, before starting to make steps in this direction.

[GhostofTarbera]

Yes, I get that contractors would be typically want tobill a client when there are fairly significant ad-hoc expense (eg non-domestic flights), but the OP is going to charge his client for the daily commute to work.



The OP must be in a very strong bargaining position for his skills for clients to agree to that. Though, its not happened yet.

He is Boris Johnston

I claim my £5


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[Paralytic]

It all depends on the client and what ends up in your contract.

Yes, I get that contractors would be typically want tocbill a client when there are fairly significant ad-hoc expense (eg non-domestic flights), but the OP is going to charge his client for the daily commute to work.

If the client is within the UK ( to be more specific in a driving/train radius of London, so no overnight stay ), I would be thinking at transport costs, or maybe not even that and just expense towards the LTD directly in this case.

The OP must be in a very strong bargaining position for his skills for clients to agree to that. Though, its not happened yet.

[edison]

So for abroad located clients, where travel is involved, the industry standard ( for the technology I work ) is daily rate + expenses.The idea is that you would not be travelling to the client site every day, so please explain to me how do you expect to include this in your daily rate when it may end up being only once a month travel ?

Expenses include flights and hotel in general. Sometimes it can also include food. The previous project I worked on, coming from the consultancy, the client team was formed only out of contractors for the duration of the project. Some of them were from cities outside of the London area, and had hotels + transport + meals expenses, once every 2 weeks when they came on-site.

This is certainly the norm for consulting firms (eg, Professional Services), but less so for individual contractors. Of course, it could be your niche area is different, and great news for you if you can get clients to foot the bill for your room service

It all depends on the client and what ends up in your contract.

I've worked on two contracts where I've had to do extensive but ad hoc European travel. Both clients footed the bill for all flights, transport and accommodation. I got it in writing that the client would pay for all expenses. The alternative was for me to pay for it all and recharge them (like consultancies tend to do.) I've done a bit of both.

Another approach which others are suggesting is to make sure it is included in your rate. The problem here is that it can be very difficult to estimate up front and if you get it wrong you can be badly burnt. As an example, I used to travel to Frankfurt quite a bit, sometimes at short notice. An early morning flight from London can easily be £400-600 if you're only booking it a couple of days in advance. There's most of your day rate gone. Other times I had to travel to multiple countries in the same week.

[PerfectStorm]

Go for it - you'll equal or better that money for a lot fewer sleepless nights, bollockings, company culture/politics and so on

[GhostofTarbera]

Go contracting - double your miserable permie income


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[Paralytic]

So for abroad located clients, where travel is involved, the industry standard ( for the technology I work ) is daily rate + expenses.The idea is that you would not be travelling to the client site every day, so please explain to me how do you expect to include this in your daily rate when it may end up being only once a month travel ?

Expenses include flights and hotel in general. Sometimes it can also include food. The previous project I worked on, coming from the consultancy, the client team was formed only out of contractors for the duration of the project. Some of them were from cities outside of the London area, and had hotels + transport + meals expenses, once every 2 weeks when they came on-site.

This is certainly the norm for consulting firms (eg, Professional Services), but less so for individual contractors. Of course, it could be your niche area is different, and great news for you if you can get clients to foot the bill for your room service

[PCTNN]

Then please stop wasting valuable time here, quit your job asap and go contracting now!!!

[CFC]

What are you talking about? If you're having your bathroom renovated and your plumber at the end of the day comes to you and says "hey chief today I had 2 frapuccinos and a meal deal for lunch. Also I spent 5 quid on gas. That'll be 15 quid, thanks" what would you do?

End clients will pay you for the service you agreed to provide, all the expenses you sustain do not concern them. You want to take a contract far from home? Not the client's problem. Your daily rate covers your daily expenses. If a contract far away from home means you have higher expenses, you increase your daily rate.

So for abroad located clients, where travel is involved, the industry standard ( for the technology I work ) is daily rate + expenses.The idea is that you would not be travelling to the client site every day, so please explain to me how do you expect to include this in your daily rate when it may end up being only once a month travel ?

Expenses include flights and hotel in general. Sometimes it can also include food. The previous project I worked on, coming from the consultancy, the client team was formed only out of contractors for the duration of the project. Some of them were from cities outside of the London area, and had hotels + transport + meals expenses, once every 2 weeks when they came on-site.

[PCTNN]

Depends on where the client is located.

If the client is within the UK ( to be more specific in a driving/train radius of London, so no overnight stay ), I would be thinking at transport costs, or maybe not even that and just expense towards the LTD directly in this case.

If the client is located further away ( e.g Scotland, or EU country ) costs such as hotel + transport. I am not sure about meals, as I would eat anyway and spend money on this, but transport and hotel ( accommodation to be more specific ), I would see as things that could be included on the invoice to be received straight from the client.

What are you talking about? If you're having your bathroom renovated and your plumber at the end of the day comes to you and says "hey chief today I had 2 frapuccinos and a meal deal for lunch. Also I spent 5 quid on gas. That'll be 15 quid, thanks" what would you do?

End clients will pay you for the service you agreed to provide, all the expenses you sustain do not concern them. You want to take a contract far from home? Not the client's problem. Your daily rate covers your daily expenses. If a contract far away from home means you have higher expenses, you increase your daily rate.

[CFC]

What expenses are you hoping are included from end client ?


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Depends on where the client is located.

If the client is within the UK ( to be more specific in a driving/train radius of London, so no overnight stay ), I would be thinking at transport costs, or maybe not even that and just expense towards the LTD directly in this case.

If the client is located further away ( e.g Scotland, or EU country ) costs such as hotel + transport. I am not sure about meals, as I would eat anyway and spend money on this, but transport and hotel ( accommodation to be more specific ), I would see as things that could be included on the invoice to be received straight from the client.