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Previously on "Contract fine, but end-client has issued lots of additional documents"

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  • Spikeh
    replied
    Originally posted by WTFH View Post
    Read them, during chargeable business hours.

    Rather than looking at them from your point of view as a contractor, look at them from their point of view. Big American firms are really into them, it's basically them covering themselves, and making sure that people are acting professionally. I've stuck in bold some (not exhaustive) list of what they may mean by each section, but until you've gone through it, you won't know.

    * Picture / audio / video consent (not happy with the full wording as it says they can use my "likeness" in any way they deem fit (which feels a little too much), though I'm fine with them using it for badges and within internal systems for ID etc) - this will cover any meetings you may be involved in where they are done with teleconferencing, etc. They use the term "likeness" as it includes still images, video and audio.

    * Drug policy (pretty hefty amount of text, no issues in principal, but a bit odd for an independent contractor) - don't be stoned/drunk when working for them.
    * Acceptable use of technology (never seen this before)- don't look at porn using equipment they supply, don't look at porn using your own equipment connected to their network, don't connect unauthorised equipment to their network.

    * Anti-harassment policy - treat others with respect, and if someone is not treating you (or others) respectfully, know who to report it to
    * A few data privacy policies - don't share proprietary information, etc
    * Code of business conduct policy (very much smacks of "employee") - If you're in an office where guests/visitors may be walking around, make sure you aren't dressed like a junkie and swearing like a trouper, possibly also don't wear football tops, etc

    Underlying thoughts: If you're a professional, acting in a professional way, then sign them. It doesn't affect IR35, VAT, or any of those other things that people get worked up over. These are generic documents that are outside of your contract and are not dictating how you should technically do your job, but how you should behave.
    Aye, of course, its all common sense if you're a professional. I act more professional than most contractors I've come across tbh, and certainly a lot more business-like, so I've nothing to /worry/ about, its just out of the ordinary to see this much additional documentation in my general line of work.

    I think I get sketchy around the bureaucratic stuff because everything they're "covering" themselves for is just common sense - and of course, I don't want to be caught out on a technicality over small print.

    Leave a comment:


  • WTFH
    replied
    Read them, during chargeable business hours.

    Rather than looking at them from your point of view as a contractor, look at them from their point of view. Big American firms are really into them, it's basically them covering themselves, and making sure that people are acting professionally. I've stuck in bold some (not exhaustive) list of what they may mean by each section, but until you've gone through it, you won't know.

    * Picture / audio / video consent (not happy with the full wording as it says they can use my "likeness" in any way they deem fit (which feels a little too much), though I'm fine with them using it for badges and within internal systems for ID etc) - this will cover any meetings you may be involved in where they are done with teleconferencing, etc. They use the term "likeness" as it includes still images, video and audio.

    * Drug policy (pretty hefty amount of text, no issues in principal, but a bit odd for an independent contractor) - don't be stoned/drunk when working for them.
    * Acceptable use of technology (never seen this before)- don't look at porn using equipment they supply, don't look at porn using your own equipment connected to their network, don't connect unauthorised equipment to their network.

    * Anti-harassment policy - treat others with respect, and if someone is not treating you (or others) respectfully, know who to report it to
    * A few data privacy policies - don't share proprietary information, etc
    * Code of business conduct policy (very much smacks of "employee") - If you're in an office where guests/visitors may be walking around, make sure you aren't dressed like a junkie and swearing like a trouper, possibly also don't wear football tops, etc

    Underlying thoughts: If you're a professional, acting in a professional way, then sign them. It doesn't affect IR35, VAT, or any of those other things that people get worked up over. These are generic documents that are outside of your contract and are not dictating how you should technically do your job, but how you should behave.

    Leave a comment:


  • NotAllThere
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    TL;DR

    Sign them and get on with the gig.
    I did read it.
    Sign them and get on with the gig.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by Spikeh View Post
    Yeah, I know this deep down, but my arse just cannot stop twitching
    So read every document, understand why it exists and what it covers and then you'll know. It's not rocket science.

    Failing that you could...

    Check with the same people that checked your contract for you. They should look at associated documentation as well as the contract for a full IR35 determination.
    Sign it illegibly so you can say it wasn't you
    Signing it and underneath put 'Director of xyz LTD' and then below that 'Signed on behalf of xyz LTD so it's clear your company has signed it not you.
    Just don't sign anything you think is suss and see what happens. If they are OK then good, if they threaten to bin if you don't sign it then you decide if you want the gig or not.

    TBH, after reading a little more of it, still not all of it. If it says anyone else as well as permies then you are covered. The fact they've got their terminology slightly wrong i.e. agency temps doesn't matter one jot. It still applies to everyone on site regardless of engagement method so you are fine.

    I think you are over thinking this.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 7 March 2019, 12:02.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spikeh
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    TL;DR

    Sign them and get on with the gig.
    Yeah, I know this deep down, but my arse just cannot stop twitching

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    TL;DR

    Sign them and get on with the gig.

    Leave a comment:


  • Contract fine, but end-client has issued lots of additional documents

    Starting a new project for a very high profile client - working through an agency, very IR35 friendly contract and (as far as the initial meeting went) very IR35 friendly working practices, too. Not worried about how its going to work in practice - a few weeks (at most) on site, then mostly remote. Essentially its a siloed consultancy / R&D role where I'll be given a list of requirements, will be investigating various tech stacks, then I'll be making suggestions, costing, prototyping and documenting my findings for them. It sounds like there will be regular breaks in the work, and I'll be doing work for my other clients along side theirs. There was even talk of ending the contract early due to budget.

    I'll be working with global, mission critical, public facing systems that could potentially cause death (this is an important distinction from most of my other projects).

    Just received a login to their "on boarding" systems with a ton of documents I need to sign before I can start. The wording is aimed at "contingent workers" - a term I've not come across before, but after doing a bit of research, it seems like a legitimate catch all term for either "temp employees" or "independent contractors" in the US. I'm working with a UK arm of theirs, but they are a very large American company - so I expect that's why its written with this language.

    Documents I need to sign include:

    * Conflict of interest (seems fine)
    * Picture / audio / video consent (not happy with the full wording as it says they can use my "likeness" in any way they deem fit (which feels a little too much), though I'm fine with them using it for badges and within internal systems for ID etc)
    * Drug policy (pretty hefty amount of text, no issues in principal, but a bit odd for an independent contractor)
    * Acceptable use of technology (never seen this before)
    * Another conflict of interest policy (much longer / more detailed than the first)
    * Anti-harassment policy
    * A few data privacy policies
    * Code of business conduct policy (very much smacks of "employee")

    Some of the documents are aimed at "employees" - though the definition of the word includes "as well as agency temps employed by a third party but assigned to perform work for us". Issue I have here is that I'm not a temp, I'm an independent contractor providing services through an employment business (the agency), which is reflected in the main contract.

    I have the option to agree to individual policies - i.e. I can leave some out, though I expect that will nerf the job.

    I very rarely get asked to sign additional documents for my contracts - usually NDAs, Health & Safety agreements for when I visit sites and badge / photo releases - which I'm perfectly fine with as one would expect, but this seems like a full-on employee on-boarding process. I am conflicted because of the pure scale of the contract and the risk the work I'll be doing could potentially pose to the public.

    I've seen this kind of thing once or twice before, usually when I've taken contracts with the public sector or with private companies servicing the public sector.

    Advice? Being too cautious? This one for a solicitor?

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