Originally posted by shedges76
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Reply to: No notice option for contractor
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Previously on "No notice option for contractor"
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Originally posted by LondonManc View PostIt's a lot simpler in the USA, surprisingly. The 13th amendment clears it all up. If you can find an equivalent that is valid in the UK, that's your loophole.
I've had a quick google and there's no sign of test cases or precedents for no notice "escapes" like there is for MoO e.g. Nethermere (St Neots) v Gardiner and Taverna, so it would be a gamble as to which way it falls. That said, why would you enter a contract looking to bail? I'd only want out of a contract if it became untenable - pushing me inside IR35 compared to what was discussed, work drying up, impossible conditions/targets, etc.
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Originally posted by LondonManc View PostI'd only want out of a contract if it became untenable - pushing me inside IR35 compared to what was discussed, work drying up, impossible conditions/targets, etc.
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It's a lot simpler in the USA, surprisingly. The 13th amendment clears it all up. If you can find an equivalent that is valid in the UK, that's your loophole.
I've had a quick google and there's no sign of test cases or precedents for no notice "escapes" like there is for MoO e.g. Nethermere (St Neots) v Gardiner and Taverna, so it would be a gamble as to which way it falls. That said, why would you enter a contract looking to bail? I'd only want out of a contract if it became untenable - pushing me inside IR35 compared to what was discussed, work drying up, impossible conditions/targets, etc.
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostI think you've got MoO wrong. MoO is beyond the piece of work you are doing. It's too complex for someone like me to properly understand and explain but whilst in contract there are obligations in place. The obligation to give and accept work is once the work in the agreement is complete. So no, I don't belive you can't use MoO to get out of a contract.
Then again I'd use my IPSE cover if I got a legal letter after 'breaching' a contract and let them choose the best method.
Either way, IMO, no ability for the contractor to terminate is a naive clause, provided by the agency, with very little legal validity.
Best for the contractor to not agree to it, but if left with no choice (benchtime) I'd not lose sleep.
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Originally posted by Lance View PostNot sure why this is such a big deal.
If I cannot ‘give notice of termination’ but for whatever reason need to stop working it’s simple. There is no mutuality of obligation for me to work so I don’t. Sure as tulip termination of the contract will follow very shortly.
Not professional, but not a breach of contract either.
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Originally posted by man View PostFair enough, although I'm sure you can see why I have my doubts as to the level of business risk you'd be taking doing that, whereas if you'd put yourself in a better contractual position to begin with... (I wouldn't mind being proved wrong as frankly I feel a right PITA requesting these sort of changes pre-contract).
I particularly like your point on slavery but nonetheless, I'm not sure a judge would agree it's relevant as the agent isn't forcing you to work for them, merely suing your business for their (potentially trumped up) losses relating to your business failing to honour a signed contract.
I'm glad you'd chase for work done, I would too - I don't see how failure to provide consultancy services tomorrow (particularly as it would be for good reason) means they can or should get today and yesterday's work for free.
Thanks for answering.
You’re right that it’s not good to sign a contract where one party cannot terminate. It fails for all parties... for example, if the contractor dies, is the agency really going to sue the company? They can try, but to little avail.
Getting legal makes good TV, but not much business sense ( unless you’re in the USA maybe).
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Originally posted by Lance View PostTLDR.
I’d simply tell the agent I wasn’t available for the foreseeable.
If they push the legal button then I’d invoke said clause via my lawyers.....
SLAVERY IS ILLEGAL. Nobody can force you to work and the clauses they try and handcuff you with are almost always useless.
And no. I wouldn’t expect to get outstanding monies, but I’d still chase them. This is business.
I particularly like your point on slavery but nonetheless, I'm not sure a judge would agree it's relevant as the agent isn't forcing you to work for them, merely suing your business for their (potentially trumped up) losses relating to your business failing to honour a signed contract.
I'm glad you'd chase for work done, I would too - I don't see how failure to provide consultancy services tomorrow (particularly as it would be for good reason) means they can or should get today and yesterday's work for free.
Thanks for answering.
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Think I'll just stay where I am. ... Barclays doesn't sound great anyway.
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Originally posted by man View PostOK, so I've just grabbed the appropriate clause from a random contract I've previously signed, and redacted as appropriate - here's the MOO clause:
"X.X no party wishes to create or imply any mutuality of obligation between themselves either in the course of, or between any performance of, the Services or during any notice period; accordingly, neither <REDACTED> nor the Client is obliged to offer any work to the Consulting Company or the Consultant, nor is the Consulting Company or the Consultant obliged to provide services to <REDACTED> or the Client beyond the termination or expiry of this Agreement;"
So if you had no right of termination, you would send an email to the agent something like:
"Dear Agent,
Under the 'mutuality of obligation' clause X.X, MyCo will be not be providing any further Services as detailed in our contract (signed <DATE1>) to <REDACTED> or Client as of tomorrow <DATE2>.
Blah blah.
Yours sincerely,
man at MyCo"
Quite aside from the obvious stunned silence from all parties concerned and probable fun and games to get any monies owed, you would not be worried about any possible comeback from this? Serious question.
I’d simply tell the agent I wasn’t available for the foreseeable.
If they push the legal button then I’d invoke said clause via my lawyers.....
SLAVERY IS ILLEGAL. Nobody can force you to work and the clauses they try and handcuff you with are almost always useless.
And no. I wouldn’t expect to get outstanding monies, but I’d still chase them. This is business.
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Originally posted by Lance View PostNo. But that’s not ROS you’re describing.
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Originally posted by Lance View PostIf it’s in my contract then yes. That’s why I have a contract.
"X.X no party wishes to create or imply any mutuality of obligation between themselves either in the course of, or between any performance of, the Services or during any notice period; accordingly, neither <REDACTED> nor the Client is obliged to offer any work to the Consulting Company or the Consultant, nor is the Consulting Company or the Consultant obliged to provide services to <REDACTED> or the Client beyond the termination or expiry of this Agreement;"
So if you had no right of termination, you would send an email to the agent something like:
"Dear Agent,
Under the 'mutuality of obligation' clause X.X, MyCo will be not be providing any further Services as detailed in our contract (signed <DATE1>) to <REDACTED> or Client as of tomorrow <DATE2>.
Blah blah.
Yours sincerely,
man at MyCo"
Quite aside from the obvious stunned silence from all parties concerned and probable fun and games to get any monies owed, you would not be worried about any possible comeback from this? Serious question.
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Originally posted by man View PostHow so? I'm struggling to think of any way of wording "I'm not coming in tomorrow" that wouldn't sound like a contract breach. Would you really just point at the MOO clause and not expect a possible sueball?
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