Reply to: Opting Out vs IR35

[northernladuk]

Then option 4 still stands. Its too late for them to ask you to opt out.

He doesn't want to Opt out.

[MonkeysUncle]

I signed a perfectly acceptable B2B contract between my limited company and the agent, just as I have done with every other contract role I've taken. There was no explicit mention of opt-out or IR35 in that contract, and the contract review showed no potential IR35 issues.

The "Opt Out" form that was included with that (on docusign), I signed with "I am not opting out" in place of my name.

It's only today (6 weeks into the role) that the agent has turned arse about face on this.

Then option 4 still stands. Its too late for them to ask you to opt out.

[pr1]

WTF????????
If you have a line manager who's a boss, you're caught by IR35 (well maybe you are but that's a far wider question).
You can't just stop being IR35 like that.
And that has nothing to do with the thread, which is about opting out of the agency regulations.

The only reason why IR35 is mentioned is the agencies seem to be of the opinion that opting out helps you in an IR35 investigation (it doesn't).

haha, he caught a live one

[Peregrine66]

But you signed an opted out contract anyway?

I signed a perfectly acceptable B2B contract between my limited company and the agent, just as I have done with every other contract role I've taken. There was no explicit mention of opt-out or IR35 in that contract, and the contract review showed no potential IR35 issues.

The "Opt Out" form that was included with that (on docusign), I signed with "I am not opting out" in place of my name.

It's only today (6 weeks into the role) that the agent has turned arse about face on this.

[northernladuk]

Sorry, I was being facetious again. No one has told me to opt out - I have of my own volition, and naturally I do not have a line manager or boss, better half aside.

Being facetious isn't working very well for you is it. I'd suggest you don't bother doing it.

I'm still curious as to why someone would wish to opt in to IR35, unless it was either moral reasons, or if they thought that in fact their business activity was indeed caught by IR35 (or maybe had plans to work in the Public Sector going forward?).

Please tell me that is a joke you are being facetious again?

[Peregrine66]

To OP
Just to check that you're not talking at cross purposes with the agent?

There are two Agency Regulations that sometimes get confused -

1) The Agency Worker Regulations (AWR)
2) The Agency Conduct Regulations

The agent was very clear what they want me to opt out of

You have indicated that you do not wish to Opt Out therefore I have attached a revised contract for your review and signature based on your decision not to Opt Out of the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Business Regulations 2003.

[LondonManc]

Carry out due diligence - credit check the agency.

What payment terms are stipulated on the contract? If it's weekly, then opting out is low risk anyway.

[fiisch]

Sorry, I was being facetious again. No one has told me to opt out - I have of my own volition, and naturally I do not have a line manager or boss, better half aside.

I'm still curious as to why someone would wish to opt in to IR35, unless it was either moral reasons, or if they thought that in fact their business activity was indeed caught by IR35 (or maybe had plans to work in the Public Sector going forward?).

[mudskipper]

To OP

Just to check that you're not talking at cross purposes with the agent?

There are two Agency Regulations that sometimes get confused -

1) The Agency Worker Regulations (AWR)
2) The Agency Conduct Regulations


Many agencies will ask you to sign something to agree that you are not subject to AWR - this is to cover them and you, and if you were subject to AWR that would indicate that you were a 'worker' therefore very likely to be inside IR35. Some people confuse this with opting out - they are different things.

When people talk about 'opting out' they mean the Agency Conduct Regulations - which cover things like being paid, handcuff clauses and the like.

If you are going to opt out, then you lose those protections, so you need to be sure that you're happy with the terms in your contract.

As others have said, you need to opt out before being introduced to the client, so the opt out probably would not hold up anyway - although AIUI it has yet to be tested.

[Lance]

My boss, as in my line manager - has been for donkeys years. I've checked with HR and my employment line reports directly into him - he said I should opt out of IR35.

WTF????????
If you have a line manager who's a boss, you're caught by IR35 (well maybe you are but that's a far wider question).
You can't just stop being IR35 like that.
And that has nothing to do with the thread, which is about opting out of the agency regulations.

The only reason why IR35 is mentioned is the agencies seem to be of the opinion that opting out helps you in an IR35 investigation (it doesn't).

[northernladuk]

My boss, as in my line manager - has been for donkeys years. I've checked with HR and my employment line reports directly into him - he said I should opt out of IR35.

So he's clearly an idiot so why are you still listening to him?

Just to be clear this is your boss at your old perm job isn't it? Not at your new contract?

[fiisch]

is your wife legally qualified?

Or do you mean your client representative?

My boss, as in my line manager - has been for donkeys years. I've checked with HR and my employment line reports directly into him - he said I should opt out of IR35.

[northernladuk]

Why would you want to opt in, out of interest?

I checked with my boss and he said I should definitely opt out.......

Who is your boss? And how do they know?

[northernladuk]

I told the agent all along that I wasn't going to opt out, and signed the contract on that basis.

It's only today, 6 weeks in, that they have decided to change track.

But you signed an opted out contract anyway?

[northernladuk]

name and shame the agency

Why? I'd say the OP has to shoulder some of the mess so why call the agency out based on half a story from someone we don't know?