Reply to: Agency payment terms issues (Legal)

[JohnM]

i normally always agree payment terms before the contract starts, as a previous poster has already said once you are in contract you will find it difficult to change payment terms unless you already had a verbal or written agreement beforehand

[Hobosapien]

Not that I am answering the original question, but in 18 years, I have never been paid weekly.

And on the rare occasion it has been offered, I have stuck with monthly payment. Less paperwork, less checking.

...

Some of the more established agencies offer weekly bacs run and self billing, so you only need to submit an approved timesheet to them by early in the week (Monday or Tuesday usually) to get paid into your account on the Friday. Some even do manual payments if they received the approved timesheet a bit later than their automated cut-off.

Personally I prefer to get paid asap, better in my account than the agency's, especially if they are playing games delaying payments or otherwise showing signs of poor cash-flow meaning there's a real risk non-payment will happen. I learnt that lesson from experience.

[simes]

Not that I am answering the original question, but in 18 years, I have never been paid weekly.

And on the rare occasion it has been offered, I have stuck with monthly payment. Less paperwork, less checking.

As to the answers, I concur with the above options, 1 and 3. Would ignore 2 as I currently cannot see a reason as to why this is so required.

[DeludedKitten]

Maybe I'm missing something but the choices are:

1) Accept monthly invoicing and get paid monthly.
2) Do not accept monthly invoicing and persuade agency to pay weekly.
3) Do not accept monthly invoicing and look for another role.

You've already said that you'll look for another role so get on with that rather than dragging this one out. That way the agency can find someone else, the client can crack on with their work, and you go somewhere else on weekly terms. Everyone wins that way.

[WTFH]

There’s a few bits of your story that don’t add up, maybe it’s just how you’ve worded it.
1. Have you worked for the end client before?
2. Have you through this particular agency before?
3. Who is the agency?
4. Does the agency’s website say “weekly payroll is available with no exceptions or caveats” or does it say “weekly payroll is available”?
5. Does the Offer Confirmation Form (which sounds like a form you sign to accept a temporary contract, although you seem to think it is a “pre contract agreement”) state anything about payment terms?
6. Did you sign the Offer Confirmation Form (or acknowledge your acceptance of it)?
7. Are you currently on site working the contract?
8. With all your years of experience, why are you discussing the terms and conditions of the contract between you and the agent with a third party, namely the client, something that I would expect is specifically mentioned as something you shouldn’t do?

[Hobosapien]

You may have had more leverage on getting the terms you wanted from the agency before you started the contract and submitted your first invoice. It's unlikely you'll get any movement from them now as they'll call your bluff and use your recent contact with client as 'proof' you were a 'wrong un' and 'not worth the hassle'.

I get your worry over the client potentially being a bad payer but if the agency is sufficiently large and there are no terms in the contract that they only pay you when they get paid, then I'd be more interested in the agency's ability to pay on time. Most of the time we can have no idea how good a payer the client is or what their payment terms will be with the agency.

Otherwise are you saying you'll only consider contracts with weekly payment terms? If so, better to get that sorted out before wasting time on interviews and accepting contracts.

[NotAllThere]

I have not signed a contract.

Yet you're on site. Not good, as that usually means you've accepted the terms and conditions of the agency. Rule 94 of the contractor's handbook - never start working until the contract is agreed.

[Andy Hallett]

SThree run payrolls daily. The vast majority of our UK contracts are on weekly time sheet cycle, in Europe the exact opposite is true where it is mainly monthly.

However.... if the client insist on a monthly timesheet, comprising a months worth of time we reciprocate. The project manager can say all he wants about being happy to sign a weekly timesheet, but the finance department won't pay it and when a weekly invoice overlaps their monthly accounting period its an absolute admin nightmare - and finance always win.

Agencies are brokers in this relationship, it sounds like you maybe haven't been explained it that well, but I doubt it is anything sinister. Pick your fights.

[northernladuk]

There is plenty out there right now, this is a good gig but I am not going to be pushed around by an agency.

Nice. That's fair enough.

[Eggnchips]

So why on earth did you ask them. Why does whatever they say have anything to do with you?

Simply because the agency are saying that the end client is dictating my terms, I have that in an email


And that's enough to put yourself on the bench? If so then fair play to you.

There is plenty out there right now, this is a good gig but I am not going to be pushed around by an agency.

[northernladuk]

Thanks again, I have asked the end client if they stipulate weekly pay and they quite rightly state that the arrangement is with the vendor (the agency).

So why on earth did you ask them. Why does whatever they say have anything to do with you?

On that basis I have emailed the agency and told them that unless I hear from them by the end of the day I will have to reconsider the role, there is no binding contract. The agency have clearly stated that the end client are bad payers but they are a massive outfit, my guess is, as with all of these companies, their payments are just slow !

And that's enough to put yourself on the bench? If so then fair play to you.

[Eggnchips]

Very sloppy and rarely ends well.


They make a glib statement on the website. It's not binding. Just stupid. I don't think you can force them to do anything just because of a poorly maintained website. They change it read 'weekly payroll where possible' and where do you stand?

Quite right to request to be paid weekly if you are unsure of the client and the client has also mentioned bad payers. Looks like you've got a risk based decision to make. You could try one parting shot of weekly pay or I refuse contract and then just sit back and see what happens. That will sort the men from the boys but be prepared to wave goodbye to the gig.

Thanks again, I have asked the end client if they stipulate weekly pay and they quite rightly state that the arrangement is with the vendor (the agency). On that basis I have emailed the agency and told them that unless I hear from them by the end of the day I will have to reconsider the role, there is no binding contract. The agency have clearly stated that the end client are bad payers but they are a massive outfit, my guess is, as with all of these companies, their payments are just slow !

[northernladuk]

Maybe I didn't explain clearly, I know the offer comes from the agency but I was merely stating that the client wanted me a.s.a.p. I did wait for the agency to contact me, unfortunately for them the client CC'd me on confidential emails, this happened as they used the same mail trail for the telephone interview arrangements.

Very sloppy and rarely ends well.

The bottom line is that the agency offer a weekly payroll without exception and I want to take advantage of that. I fully appreciate that my pay arrangement is clearly with the agency and not the client but I have emails from the agency clearly stating that the client insists on monthly. In fact the client is only re-stating their terms with the agency which again has nothing to do with me and does not mention me at all. The end client are an offshore organisation so that coupled with an off the record comment from the agent do lead me to want to be paid weekly.

Thanks anyway

They make a glib statement on the website. It's not binding. Just stupid. I don't think you can force them to do anything just because of a poorly maintained website. They change it read 'weekly payroll where possible' and where do you stand?

Quite right to request to be paid weekly if you are unsure of the client and the client has also mentioned bad payers. Looks like you've got a risk based decision to make. You could try one parting shot of weekly pay or I refuse contract and then just sit back and see what happens. That will sort the men from the boys but be prepared to wave goodbye to the gig.

[Eggnchips]

I've been one 10 years and the current gig is the first one I've ever been paid weekly on. It's very common to be paid monthly.

No they didn't. Your contract and obligations are with the agency. Yes the client have accepted you but it's only the agent that can offer you the contract.



So the agency don't want to factor your payments. Something that has probably happened most of the 20 years you've been contracting but just not realised it. B2B contracts can often be upwards of 90 days payment terms. The agencys just pay you in advance weekly and collect the money later on down the line.

Which it isn't. Bit daft of them to put the weekly bit on their website when it's client specific. A mistake on their part but not something you can really hold them to.


Not really. It's standard mess up around Opting out. You've been introduced so it's a waste of time but agents don't know this. It's not a contract.


Not quite understanding this. Your company may demand 7 days but it's whatever is in the contract. If the agent doesn't want to meet your demands you have two choices. Suck it up or decline.

Sometimes it just doesn't go that way.

Why? Your payment terms have absolutely nothing to do with them. They pay the agent and then the agent pays you as per the terms you two agree on.

You might try and refuse the opt out so they agency are obliged to pay you timesheet or not but it rarely, if ever, makes a difference.

Push the agency as hard as you can and if they refuse to budge then it's back to the affore mentioned options. Kicking up a stink with your client isn't one of them IMO.

Is there a solid reason you want 7 days? It is such a big risk to you? Have you got cash flow issues? Personally, as long as my risk profile is met I've no problems with monthly payments. Small clients and agents I've never heard of would make me nervous and warrant more investigation but a big enough client and agent and I'd be OK. I most certainly wouldn't be jeopardising a good gig over it.

Maybe I didn't explain clearly, I know the offer comes from the agency but I was merely stating that the client wanted me a.s.a.p. I did wait for the agency to contact me, unfortunately for them the client CC'd me on confidential emails, this happened as they used the same mail trail for the telephone interview arrangements.

The bottom line is that the agency offer a weekly payroll without exception and I want to take advantage of that. I fully appreciate that my pay arrangement is clearly with the agency and not the client but I have emails from the agency clearly stating that the client insists on monthly. In fact the client is only re-stating their terms with the agency which again has nothing to do with me and does not mention me at all. The end client are an offshore organisation so that coupled with an off the record comment from the agent do lead me to want to be paid weekly.

Thanks anyway

[northernladuk]

Firstly I have been a contractor for over 30 years so do my way around a bit. I have been weekly paid for the last 20 years.

I've been one 10 years and the current gig is the first one I've ever been paid weekly on. It's very common to be paid monthly.

I interviewed for a role two weeks ago and was offered the role by the client on the phone.

No they didn't. Your contract and obligations are with the agency. Yes the client have accepted you but it's only the agent that can offer you the contract.

When I spoke with the agency concerning terms they stated that I had to go on monthly pay. I pointed out the obvious and asked why. I was informed that this was an issue with the hiring company and that they operate monthly timesheets (off the record I was told that they are bad payers). Before I started I checked with the line manager on site and he said he would approve a weekly timesheet with the agency and I could just complete the monthly one.

So the agency don't want to factor your payments. Something that has probably happened most of the 20 years you've been contracting but just not realised it. B2B contracts can often be upwards of 90 days payment terms. The agencys just pay you in advance weekly and collect the money later on down the line.

The agency won't accept this, I have pointed out that their arrangement with their client has nothing whatsoever to do with me and that they should do as they advertise and pay me weekly.

Which it isn't. Bit daft of them to put the weekly bit on their website when it's client specific. A mistake on their part but not something you can really hold them to.

I have not signed a contract. What they did produce was a "Temporary Contract Role "OFFER" Confirmation form". I have never seen one of these before from any agency. It is basically a pre contract agreement BUT at the bottom they have an "opt out" notice around employment regulations. They seem to think this is their get out in terms of paying me what they owe me when I submit an invoice. I have repeatedly stated that this is "pre contract" and is not binding as I have not accepted a contract.

Not really. It's standard mess up around Opting out. You've been introduced so it's a waste of time but agents don't know this. It's not a contract.

I have had arguments with their "legal" person who seems unable to comprehend the idea that my payment arrangements are with them and not the end client bar authorisation. I have tried to email their directors who refuse to engage. I have submitted an invoice direct to their payroll department stating that my payment terms are 7 days.

Not quite understanding this. Your company may demand 7 days but it's whatever is in the contract. If the agent doesn't want to meet your demands you have two choices. Suck it up or decline.

In short all I want is weekly payroll that they operate anyway.

Sometimes it just doesn't go that way.

Any help would be much appreciated, at this stage I have not advised the client but I am going to have to.

Why? Your payment terms have absolutely nothing to do with them. They pay the agent and then the agent pays you as per the terms you two agree on.

You might try and refuse the opt out so they agency are obliged to pay you timesheet or not but it rarely, if ever, makes a difference.

Push the agency as hard as you can and if they refuse to budge then it's back to the affore mentioned options. Kicking up a stink with your client isn't one of them IMO.

Is there a solid reason you want 7 days? It is such a big risk to you? Have you got cash flow issues? Personally, as long as my risk profile is met I've no problems with monthly payments. Small clients and agents I've never heard of would make me nervous and warrant more investigation but a big enough client and agent and I'd be OK. I most certainly wouldn't be jeopardising a good gig over it.