Reply to: Why?

[LondonManc]

Never been asked by a Permie what my rate is. My daily rate vs your daily rate is a contractor problem.

Nope, same here. Been asked what it's like contracting, etc. but never day rate outright. Told them ballpark what they'd get as a day rate (+/-40%) and that it's better to be made redundant if they've been somewhere at least five years than to just quit. A lot of them couldn't hack the travelling and living away so they have their comfort bubble.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Never been asked by a Permie what my rate is. My daily rate vs your daily rate is a contractor problem.

[Lance]

That's easily fixed by ensuring you always get the first round in.

Yep. Or open a tab with the company card and let the perms go crazy.

[vwdan]

Contracting is a game to a certain extent and some play it better than others.

Good luck.

qh

Indeed, and really that's the key of being in business. You're a sales person, you're a customer relations person and you're the boss - learning to balance those, setting expectations while improving that relationship is a life skill. Yes, we get to opt-out of some permie BS like One to Ones, but there's no stepping out of politics - you shouldn't be just "head down", you should be getting in there and forging working relationships with folk.

[quackhandle]

Contracting is a game to a certain extent and some play it better than others.

Good luck.

qh

[psychocandy]

Just to point out it wasn't me who mentioned the day rate. Someone said something to the line manager. I NEVER talk about such things

Ha ha so line manager told his staff what the contractors day rate was? Not sure if that was the cleverest idea as a manager.

Everywhere I've worked the line managers are petrified the permies are going to find out how much the contractor is getting and then kick off!

[ckms]

Just to point out it wasn't me who mentioned the day rate. Someone said something to the line manager. I NEVER talk about such things

[psychocandy]

Got be fair thats a good point - how does the day rate get mentioned?
Even if a permie asks me directly I always jokingly say, look if you're considering contracting take a look at the rates on jobserve.

Never had a problem with permies. Yeh you get the odd piss take but nothing serious.

As I said, you do start with things against you a "little" as a contractor. If you then act like a spolit brat then you'll just confirm what the permies think. If you prove to be a normal person then theres never a problem.

And yes it works to buy them a beer in the pub, at xmas or whatever. I used to tell the permies about pizza place in town at one client and how good it was. So one lunchtime I shelled out for a few pizzas. £30 it cost me. Nothing. Permies were well impressed they were getting something for free.

[vwdan]

I think the root problem is that it sounds like your interpersonal skills are absolutely shocking. Why the hell do the permies even have the slightest clue what your rate is? If you're being seen as disruptive so many times then it's likely that it's you who is the problem. I've had to do the "Educate management" shtick a few times - in fact, I'm doing it right now. Guess what, get on great with the permies and just extend with a rise.

Sort yourself out, man.

[SteelyDan]

In my experience as soon as the day rate is mentioned there's usually no way back.

Never wise to mention this sort of info [even to other contractors] as it can only antagonise.

[LondonManc]

Or just ask them why they don't take the contracting route. At which point they'll say 'because of sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy, training, etc...'

You really think career permies are that clued up?

Mind you, if they were to honestly answer "I'm not 'kin good enough and I'd be shaking like a sh***ing dog at the thought of having to work for a living" then I'd be very impressed.

[psychocandy]

And then there is the type of contractors that act all superior, point blank refusing to have anything to do with the office dynamics and keep flaunting their day rate around.

The correct path is in the middle, just because you are not a permie(tractor) doesn't mean you can ignore what's going on in the office. The relationship with your client doesn't end with whoever signs your timesheets.

Re the day rate envy - there is a simple solution - don't mention it. If some permie manage to find it and start moaning about it, tell him you are using umbrella and pay the same level of tax as him, but don't have holiday/sick pay and can be sacked on the spot.

Spot on. No client EVER wants a contractor who flounces around, thinks they;'re special and upsets the permies.

Got to be nice to the permies. You might be the best technically in the world but if a few moaning permies get in the managers ear you won't last.

[pauldee]

Yep - never mentioned my day rate to permies. If they grumble about it, mention sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy, training, etc as a trade off and explain the differences in working politely. Never had any problems from permies in that sense once they are made aware of the pitfalls of contracting.

Or just ask them why they don't take the contracting route. At which point they'll say 'because of sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy, training, etc...'

[LondonManc]

And then there is the type of contractors that act all superior, point blank refusing to have anything to do with the office dynamics and keep flaunting their day rate around.

The correct path is in the middle, just because you are not a permie(tractor) doesn't mean you can ignore what's going on in the office. The relationship with your client doesn't end with whoever signs your timesheets.

Re the day rate envy - there is a simple solution - don't mention it. If some permie manage to find it and start moaning about it, tell him you are using umbrella and pay the same level of tax as him, but don't have holiday/sick pay and can be sacked on the spot.

Yep - never mentioned my day rate to permies. If they grumble about it, mention sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy, training, etc as a trade off and explain the differences in working politely. Never had any problems from permies in that sense once they are made aware of the pitfalls of contracting.

[sal]

And then there is the type of contractors that act all superior, point blank refusing to have anything to do with the office dynamics and keep flaunting their day rate around.

The correct path is in the middle, just because you are not a permie(tractor) doesn't mean you can ignore what's going on in the office. The relationship with your client doesn't end with whoever signs your timesheets.

Re the day rate envy - there is a simple solution - don't mention it. If some permie manage to find it and start moaning about it, tell him you are using umbrella and pay the same level of tax as him, but don't have holiday/sick pay and can be sacked on the spot.