Reply to: Contracting issue, client trying to treat me like an employee and to pay me less than

[l35kee]

Is she looking to have a meeting about your progress on the work you are doing? If so she is perfectly entitled to get a progress update - if you employ a builder you'd expect to be able to ask him if he was still expecting to finish on time and if there were any issues that he needed help with.

If she wants to give you a formal appraisal then I'd tell her to "do one" - only someone with a career at the company needs one of them

Exactly. And I very much doubt it's a formal appraisal. A "how are things? Are people giving you what you need? Any blockers I can remove for you, etc" is perfectly fine and should be welcomed.

[oilboil]

Thank you for your responses.

I had a meeting with the VP and they agreed to change the contract.

However my outstanding problem is with the person I “report” to. She treats me like an employee and wants to have a one on one meeting with me.

How do I tell her that I can’t have one on ones with her to talk about my “progress” as I’m not an employee?


Thanks

Is she looking to have a meeting about your progress on the work you are doing? If so she is perfectly entitled to get a progress update - if you employ a builder you'd expect to be able to ask him if he was still expecting to finish on time and if there were any issues that he needed help with.

If she wants to give you a formal appraisal then I'd tell her to "do one" - only someone with a career at the company needs one of them

[NotAllThere]

I didn’t have to prove I was a contractor I was just explaining how IR35 works to them and how it limited my duties to what was written in the contract as opposed to what they were expecting (more work unrelated to the project I was assigned, filling in for missing employees, working on other projects not mentioned in the contract).

Exactly. You were on a contract for services, they tried to treat it as a contract of service.

[v8gaz]

I mean he’s the Vice President of a company, surely he should know what that is?

American company - they hand out VP status to anyone, it's cheaper than a pay rise. Totally meaningless.

[northernladuk]

I always thought there was some kind of rule of thumb, whereby if your daily rate is below a certain point then there is no point incorporating from a tax perspective, and you may as well use an umbrella company as that would work out cheaper than accountancy fees.

And that £170 a day is below that level?

(But yes, the primary reason for us being contractors is because we've seen beyond the corporate bulltulip reviews, 1:1s and integrating with the team).

Yeah. It used to be around the 30k mark. Any less then umbrella was a more efficient choice. There isn't really a figure now as the amount of travel that can no longer be claimed makes an impact.

[chopper]

I always thought there was some kind of rule of thumb, whereby if your daily rate is below a certain point then there is no point incorporating from a tax perspective, and you may as well use an umbrella company as that would work out cheaper than accountancy fees.

And that £170 a day is below that level?

(But yes, the primary reason for us being contractors is because we've seen beyond the corporate bulltulip reviews, 1:1s and integrating with the team).

[psychocandy]

I don’t work in IT. My usual day rate is £250 but I accepted £170 because I didn’t want to get bored in January.

Anyway I’ve quit now and have other clients to cater to who don’t feel like they own me.

Fair play well done for sticking up for yourself....

[Snarf]

IMO the CRSE survey is tulip.

It states that the hourly earnings of "IT and Related Professions" is the same as "Cleaners" and that builders earn more than IT professionals!

If that was truly the case and the average IT contractor earned £7.80 there wouldn't be a whole industry of recruitment "pimps" driving around in fast cars.

Ahh, "IT and Related Professions" That includes IT Support call centre staff - I can tell you from working in HR for a company who uses "contractors" to staff their help desk that these rates are extremely low... Lower than you'd get away with paying a permie. Thats going to bring down the average.

[Snarf]

Where did you get that from? Seems a bit hard to believe.

All I can find is a calculator on the Crunch site which says otherwise
https://www.crunch.co.uk/knowledge/day-rate-calculator/

It cant be right, thats less than £1 above national minimum wage, for context Aldi pays more for you to stack shelves. Until I see some data to back the claim up Im not believing a word of it!

[PerfectStorm]

If you didn't get your contract checked how did you know you were outside at all?

After reading the write-ups on my last few checks, I might be doing the next one myself...

[Chelseagirl]

If you didn't get your contract checked how did you know you were outside at all?

Who said I didn’t get my contract checked?

I got my contract checked and it falls outside of IR35. Its their practices that were not and which I tried to resist.

[northernladuk]

If you didn't get your contract checked how did you know you were outside at all?

[Chelseagirl]

I was being serious. IR35 isn't tick box and the last resource you need is the HMRC's. It isn't concerning. They didn't want a contractor, they want a temp. It's as simple as that and it's game over for you. Nothing more you can do here except pay the proper taxes and pay travel and subsistence back and move on.

I'm more concerned you had to go through HMRC's list to try and prove you are a contractor.

I didn’t have to prove I was a contractor I was just explaining how IR35 works to them and how it limited my duties to what was written in the contract as opposed to what they were expecting (more work unrelated to the project I was assigned, filling in for missing employees, working on other projects not mentioned in the contract). I have quit now but when I was there I was managing my own time, I was working exclusively on the agreed project, I had the liberty to choose how to perform the work as long as it was delivered on time, there was no mention of mutual obligation in the contract and I was not restricted from working with other clients.

I resisted their demands for three weeks. They tried to push them on me and I said no which is why I quit.

Good for you & the right decision you come across as confident enough to believe in your own abilities so I am absolutely certain you will have something else more suitable very soon.

Thank you for your kind words. I don’t think I had another option as I laid out the situation to them in regards to IR35 and they still didn’t want to hear a thing saying “we don’t think it has anything to do with HRMC if we want to ensure your well-being and want you to participate in the team” so it was like talking to a brick wall. I couldn’t see the relationship getting better so I think I got out on time. Oh also when you google their name it tries to add the word scam after the name of the business ... oh well

[uk contractor]

I have quit.

Good for you & the right decision you come across as confident enough to believe in your own abilities so I am absolutely certain you will have something else more suitable very soon.

[northernladuk]

Hahaha, on a more serious note I thought it was quite concerning he has never heard of the IR 35 test.

I explained to him what it meant in terms of how I do my work and manage my own time and he basically called me antisocial...I mean he’s the Vice President of a company, surely he should know what that is? I found his ignorance pathetic.

I was being serious. IR35 isn't tick box and the last resource you need is the HMRC's. It isn't concerning. They didn't want a contractor, they want a temp. It's as simple as that and it's game over for you. Nothing more you can do here except pay the proper taxes and pay travel and subsistence back and move on.

I'm more concerned you had to go through HMRC's list to try and prove you are a contractor.