Reply to: Use client name for marketing purposes

[Lance]

It's not about me nor about a person. It is about a physical product that you can touch, not biscuits but similar. The company that manufacture it could not sell it directly to big names (think startup, new product, trust issues etc) but now that the product turned out to be good they are looking at a way to promote it. The middle man, company B, can't help them due apparently some signed agreements with their clients or maybe they fear that if company A and C goes to deal directly they will be cut out.

It looks grey area and probably it is best if company A replace BA with 'one of the largest airlines in the world' at least in their adverts. Or company A reach directly to company C and ask for permission but that could upset company B. Even if it is legally right to use their name, at the end of the day upsetting any client is not the desired outcome, finding the proper way to make anyone happy looks tricky.

how about doing what most companies do?

The marketing makes no mention of Company C, but the salesmen shout it to the rooftops with 'I can't really tell you this but.....'

[seek25]

Of course.

What's the OP's actual concern? Mentioning who you worked for in your CV?

It's not about me nor about a person. It is about a physical product that you can touch, not biscuits but similar. The company that manufacture it could not sell it directly to big names (think startup, new product, trust issues etc) but now that the product turned out to be good they are looking at a way to promote it. The middle man, company B, can't help them due apparently some signed agreements with their clients or maybe they fear that if company A and C goes to deal directly they will be cut out.

It looks grey area and probably it is best if company A replace BA with 'one of the largest airlines in the world' at least in their adverts. Or company A reach directly to company C and ask for permission but that could upset company B. Even if it is legally right to use their name, at the end of the day upsetting any client is not the desired outcome, finding the proper way to make anyone happy looks tricky.

[pauldee]

But there's nothing to stop you saying "we are the Neasden Volkswagen Enthusiasts Club". Or a garage saying "we repair VWs".

That's very true. It's always specifically the use of the logo that causes problems.

[NotAllThere]

this is of course US law and doesn't help the biscuit manufacturer's loss of business when BA stop 'eating their biscuits'.

Of course.

What's the OP's actual concern? Mentioning who you worked for in your CV?

[Lance]

So company A can say "BA eat our biscuits" with a note that this does not imply any endorsement or sponsorship by BA.

this is of course US law and doesn't help the biscuit manufacturer's loss of business when BA stop 'eating their biscuits'.

[NotAllThere]

As a classic Volkswagen enthusiast, I can tell you any club or business that uses the VW logo will have Volkswagen's lawyers all over them in no time. Many depictions of the classic campervan on t-shirts, mugs etc will have it replaced with a peace sign to avoid trouble.

But there's nothing to stop you saying "we are the Neasden Volkswagen Enthusiasts Club". Or a garage saying "we repair VWs".

[NotAllThere]

I don't know much about the legal aspect, if I knew I wouldn't ask.

I don't know if company name can be a trademark. Fro instance when you write about Microsoft you use Microsoft(r) Windows(TM). One is registered mark, the other is a trade mark. Saying one can't use a company name without permission is like no one can write an article about MS because the usage of name is prohibited. On the other hand if you attach Windows logo to your product then you need their permission. However, say you have sold chair to an office MS, I don't see why you can't advertise that you product is being used by Microsoft. You did not sell directly but it's a true statement and I can't see how they are affected in a negative way by your advertisement.

New Scientist were using the verb google, and were contacted by Google's lawyers, who insisted that they had to write "If you Google™..." So they stopped using the verb and started taking the piss.

The simple rule is that you can't use someone as a public reference unless you have written or electronic permission from them to do so. Just ask the people you deal with, if they say use their names if they say no don't.

This from a US site:

To qualify as nominative fair use, the following elements must be present:

The use must accurately refer to the owner of the trademark or the goods or services sold under the trademark— it cannot be misleading or defamatory;
The use must not imply any endorsement or sponsorship by the trademark owner;
There should be no easier way to refer to the owner or its products; and
Only so much of the trademark can be used as is needed to identify the trademark owner and no more—this is often taken to mean that only words may be used but not logos.

So company A can say "BA eat our biscuits" with a note that this does not imply any endorsement or sponsorship by BA. At least in the US. I'd be surprised if the EU/UK was much different.

[pauldee]

I know for sure that usage of the logo and any other trademarks require (written) permission. This means company A can not use BA logo, as per our example, on their promotional campaign without seeking written permission to do so.

But what about company's C business name, BritishAirways, is the company name falling under the same regulation such logo or/and other brand specific trademark usage?

As a classic Volkswagen enthusiast, I can tell you any club or business that uses the VW logo will have Volkswagen's lawyers all over them in no time. Many depictions of the classic campervan on t-shirts, mugs etc will have it replaced with a peace sign to avoid trouble.

[eek]

You will be fine until the cease and desist order arrives.

Then you will argue the point and say you worked there and they will say no, and continue the cease and desist order

The simple rule is that you can't use someone as a public reference unless you have written or electronic permission from them to do so. Just ask the people you deal with, if they say use their names if they say no don't.

[Lance]

I still don't see why it won't be legal. The above post link does not say anything about prohibiting usage of a company name.

I believe most food companies don't care about advertising or have signed agreements to either allow or deny such usage. The question is, what if such agreement does not exist.

Let’s say that it is legal. And as we’re not lawyers we’re probably not right anyway and it’s probably very complex in any case.

Company A says ‘our biscuits are eaten on BA flights’
Company C (BA) says to company B ‘WTF - we have a contract that says you can’t do that’
Company B says to company C ‘cease and desist or we buy the biscuits elsewhere’

[seek25]

So you think it is fair game to use a big, high profile company's name, in this example BA, to promote your own company without BA's permission? How many examples have you come across of, say, a food company using BA's name in the way you suggest and then stop and wonder why no food company has done this before?

Knock yourself out matey but dont come back here asking what should I do if \ when BA or anyone else sues you for using their company name without permission.

I still don't see why it won't be legal. The above post link does not say anything about prohibiting usage of a company name.

I believe most food companies don't care about advertising or have signed agreements to either allow or deny such usage. The question is, what if such agreement does not exist.

[washed up contractor]

Are you sure you can't say a company , BA in our example, is using your product if you know for sure they do? What kind of law prohibits you from doing so?

So you think it is fair game to use a big, high profile company's name, in this example BA, to promote your own company without BA's permission? How many examples have you come across of, say, a food company using BA's name in the way you suggest and then stop and wonder why no food company has done this before?

Knock yourself out matey but dont come back here asking what should I do if \ when BA or anyone else sues you for using their company name without permission.

[northernladuk]

Are you sure you can't say a company , BA in our example, is using your product if you know for sure they do? What kind of law prohibits you from doing so?

https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/c...opyright_names

[seek25]

...Why would you think that a BA logo is more protected than the company name? Just interested....

I don't know much about the legal aspect, if I knew I wouldn't ask.

I don't know if company name can be a trademark. Fro instance when you write about Microsoft you use Microsoft(r) Windows(TM). One is registered mark, the other is a trade mark. Saying one can't use a company name without permission is like no one can write an article about MS because the usage of name is prohibited. On the other hand if you attach Windows logo to your product then you need their permission. However, say you have sold chair to an office MS, I don't see why you can't advertise that you product is being used by Microsoft. You did not sell directly but it's a true statement and I can't see how they are affected in a negative way by your advertisement.

[seek25]

No, you cannot use BA's (or another company's) name to promote your company unless you have BA's (or other company's) permission to use it.

Are you sure you can't say a company , BA in our example, is using your product if you know for sure they do? What kind of law prohibits you from doing so?