Reply to: State of the Market

[northernladuk]

I think agencies have been shifting more to LinkedIn, I would throw the towel in on jobserve tbh.

My burner has been working like a good 'un these past six weeks, the market is alive it's just that certain parts of it are dead and others are going beserk. The record for the past 12 months was set on Wednesday when it went off eight times about eight different roles.

Witness the requests for 15 SAP contractors for one project and 8 Salesforce contractors for another.

I doubt there is a single benched SAP contractor on this board who's linked in inbox isn't lit up like a Christmas tree.

At this rate, by the first quarter of next year, I reckon there won't be enough Sap, Oracle or Salesforce consultants in the world to do the work that's needed.

I saw that as well. Even though I wasn't looking in that area I've got SAP on my CV and late August my inbox went mad. There were at least 3 major clients running massive programmes to switch to S4. Two of them had multiple agencies looking so got numerous calls for the same clients. Was a tad hectic to say the least.

[ladymuck]

This is true.
I was an Apple Macintosh support engineer contractor back in 1996 working for Cable and Wireless in Milton Keynes. I remember there was a room full of system architect contractors who it was said were on £1500/week - which seemed like a huge amount of money back then compared with my £643/week.



My career history is chequered.
While I have had periods of long running contracts with multiple extensions (such as in 2013 for two years a small company in Maidenhead £370/day SQL DBA), and more recently an energy company on the south coast, on and off for 3 years at £400/day, I have also had several periods of months off with depression (caused, I found out recently, by undiagnosed untreated autism), and also after the end of several contracts periods of months where I have chosen to put off applying for roles as I haven't needed the money (live with parents) and felt like a break. A bit lazy, true. I have around 20 contracts on my CV, which might suggest to clients I might be getting fired regularly (I was only "fired" from two of them though, they said I was no good).
I have also only done one training course (Microsoft exam) every 5 years or so (also lazy, possibly), and have tended to be pigeon-holed by clients into doing work where I already have the experience, so have not been able to acquire many new areas of experience.
To rectify the situation I think I need to do more training in order possibly to justify clients giving me work in those areas. But at age 53 is it worth it?
Overall a £350/day contract in the place (the city), where conventional wisdom states that rates of pay should be at their highest, isn't much of a crowning achievement to the career I thought I might be able to expect when I went to study at Cambridge Uni all those years ago

Cambridge you say? I wonder if you were there around the same time as my partner!! He was at the Corpus Christie dinner this weekend....

[GJABS]

£350 a day is about £85K a year and some void period at end if you don't walk into another role.

£80K (£40per hour) was the going rate in the City in the mid 90s, 30 years ago!

They are not going to get many or any good CVs for that rate.

This is true.
I was an Apple Macintosh support engineer contractor back in 1996 working for Cable and Wireless in Milton Keynes. I remember there was a room full of system architect contractors who it was said were on £1500/week - which seemed like a huge amount of money back then compared with my £643/week.

If you are any good then they got lucky.

My career history is chequered.
While I have had periods of long running contracts with multiple extensions (such as in 2013 for two years a small company in Maidenhead £370/day SQL DBA), and more recently an energy company on the south coast, on and off for 3 years at £400/day, I have also had several periods of months off with depression (caused, I found out recently, by undiagnosed untreated autism), and also after the end of several contracts periods of months where I have chosen to put off applying for roles as I haven't needed the money (live with parents) and felt like a break. A bit lazy, true. I have around 20 contracts on my CV, which might suggest to clients I might be getting fired regularly (I was only "fired" from two of them though, they said I was no good).
I have also only done one training course (Microsoft exam) every 5 years or so (also lazy, possibly), and have tended to be pigeon-holed by clients into doing work where I already have the experience, so have not been able to acquire many new areas of experience.
To rectify the situation I think I need to do more training in order possibly to justify clients giving me work in those areas. But at age 53 is it worth it?
Overall a £350/day contract in the place (the city), where conventional wisdom states that rates of pay should be at their highest, isn't much of a crowning achievement to the career I thought I might be able to expect when I went to study at Cambridge Uni all those years ago

[Bluenose]

Looking at number of jobs on the job boards, the market over the last six weeks has been down about 25% due to the normal summer holiday season, I think any pickup in September is just going to just take us back to how the market was in June.

I think agencies have been shifting more to LinkedIn, I would throw the towel in on jobserve tbh.

My burner has been working like a good 'un these past six weeks, the market is alive it's just that certain parts of it are dead and others are going beserk. The record for the past 12 months was set on Wednesday when it went off eight times about eight different roles.

Witness the requests for 15 SAP contractors for one project and 8 Salesforce contractors for another.

I doubt there is a single benched SAP contractor on this board who's linked in inbox isn't lit up like a Christmas tree.

At this rate, by the first quarter of next year, I reckon there won't be enough Sap, Oracle or Salesforce consultants in the world to do the work that's needed.

[MyUserName]

Got a contract until December, it might get renewed - who knows?!

Have been approached by 3 agents about new roles in January, two perm ones. One has not got a salary sorted yet (I would pretty much be employee 3 in a new crypo HFT start up) the other is offering £150 - £175k a year. The 3rd one is a contract and we are going in at £1k a day outside IR35.

Market does not seem to be too bad for the Blockchain/Rust market at the moment. Especially if you have architecture knowledge and a cross section of supporting technologies.

[Fraidycat]

Insane rises in interest rate is the cause. Companies often borrow to fund expansion and that cost has become untenable. Also, perm staff are having trouble with the costs of living and are asking for raises - more corporate costs.
Not seen the contract market this bad in the last 20 years; this looks like the big one. Rates are going south in real time.

And the worrying thing is the rest of economy is effected by interest rates on a lag of around 12 to 18 months. A year ago, Sept 2022, base rate was only 2%. It wont be until the middle of next year until the economy really feels the effect of 5% interest rates.

[TwoWolves]

No idea why we are having this downturn, pretty horrible for all concerned. Especially if you are halfway through a house project with absolutely no warchest or savings left and builders looking for payments

Never mind, could be worse, in that, I could also be injured and not able to run/cycle.

Insane rises in interest rate is the cause. Companies often borrow to fund expansion and that cost has become untenable. Also, perm staff are having trouble with the costs of living and are asking for raises - more corporate costs.

Not seen the contract market this bad in the last 20 years; this looks like the big one. Rates are going south in real time.

[gixxer2021]

I think this has quite a big impact on unemployed people and what leads to so many long term unemployed. Doesn't matter if it's work, dating or anything. Getting rejected dozens if not 100s of times is going to impact any sane person. Even if you rationally know that it's a numbers game, that a rejection is more often than not not a reflection on you at all.

I've had a few intentional gaps in my career. I absolutely notice some agents/managers judge me for them. Weird sense of 'He wasn't working so there must be something wrong with him that other people see but I'm missing' sort of thing. The notion that I can work a year and have enough income for 3+ years just doesn't make sense to them.

I can totally empathise with this, I’ve enjoyed a few lengthy breaks between contracts (one of the many reasons I enjoy contracting), but have found agents can be hugely judgmental about this. I’ve even been accused of lying and having been fired (I wasn’t!).

[fiisch]

Looks like I'm back, for good this time. Accepted a contract this afternoon - my preferred choice came back first, so I've immediately accepted as the terms are decent and the project excites me. The only minor downside is three days a week in London, but pre-Covid and in my previous existence as a contractor I was 5 days in London, so I can't grumble.

Feel very fortunate to have found something so quickly - now just for the unenviable task of agreeing an early exit from my current permie employer.

[JustKeepSwimming]

I must admit though that I am finding the process of getting a contract emotionally draining - I don't get nervous before interviews anymore (I've had too many over the span of my career for that) and I'm only in the early stages of looking having recently given notice, but I've really not been myself this week. I'm lucky in that I don't suffer with any mental health/anxiety issues *touches wood*, but this week is the closest I've ever come to having feelings of anxiety. Maybe it's anxiety over leaving the relative security of a perm position, but in my head I'm very comfortable with my decision (or at least I think I am!).

I think this has quite a big impact on unemployed people and what leads to so many long term unemployed. Doesn't matter if it's work, dating or anything. Getting rejected dozens if not 100s of times is going to impact any sane person. Even if you rationally know that it's a numbers game, that a rejection is more often than not not a reflection on you at all.

I've had a few intentional gaps in my career. I absolutely notice some agents/managers judge me for them. Weird sense of 'He wasn't working so there must be something wrong with him that other people see but I'm missing' sort of thing. The notion that I can work a year and have enough income for 3+ years just doesn't make sense to them.

[northernladuk]

I must admit though that I am finding the process of getting a contract emotionally draining - I don't get nervous before interviews anymore (I've had too many over the span of my career for that) and I'm only in the early stages of looking having recently given notice, but I've really not been myself this week. I'm lucky in that I don't suffer with any mental health/anxiety issues *touches wood*, but this week is the closest I've ever come to having feelings of anxiety. Maybe it's anxiety over leaving the relative security of a perm position, but in my head I'm very comfortable with my decision (or at least I think I am!).

Exactly this for me as well! Normally very confident and a bit giddy when looking for gigs but very different experience this time. The number of applicants the roles get, difficult to speak to agent and the new fire and forget way made me uncomfortable and failed a few interviews for the first time in 10 years so also started to get a bit anxious. Deep down I knew I'd get something but the whole process was so different it caught me off guard. I think I'm in for another long one but I'll not be quite so (over) confident next time and take it a bit more seriously.

[fiisch]

I'd have got a contract first then resigned - assuming you don't have a ridiculous notice period.

I am subject to a ridiculous 3 month notice period...

I suspect there will be some flexibility in that if and when I secure a contract, but I thought it'd be better to give notice and say "I am going to do X" rather than "I've got a contract and I need to be gone by XX"...

[TheDude]

Handed my notice in on Thursday (which I think wasn't wholly unexpected but not taken particularly well) and phoned a couple of agents I know to be useful. Had three interviews since Friday so fingers crossed... The market seems red hot to me - perhaps this is industry dependent going by some other recent comments on this thread, but I've managed to stir up plenty of interest without applying in anger/visiting the job forums. I'd love to say that's because of the quality of my CV and sparkling personality, but I've only been a BA for 7 years so it's more likely reflective of the market rather than my CV.... I also know that from the other side of the table, we struggled to find good quality BA's this year offering £600p/d outside IR35.

I must admit though that I am finding the process of getting a contract emotionally draining - I don't get nervous before interviews anymore (I've had too many over the span of my career for that) and I'm only in the early stages of looking having recently given notice, but I've really not been myself this week. I'm lucky in that I don't suffer with any mental health/anxiety issues *touches wood*, but this week is the closest I've ever come to having feelings of anxiety. Maybe it's anxiety over leaving the relative security of a perm position, but in my head I'm very comfortable with my decision (or at least I think I am!).

I'd have got a contract first then resigned - assuming you don't have a ridiculous notice period.

[fiisch]

Another contractor turned permie considering a return - but having contacted my network of reliable agents, there seems to be a wealth of BA contracts in the insurance world with rates of £6-700pd, mostly outside IR35. Certainly, enough to give me confidence to hand in my notice in the morning and start applying.

Rates compare favourably to my current permie salary of £98k - I know many would stay stick with the security of the perm job, but the politics is driving me bonkers and the work is truly soul-destroying and in a slightly different area to that which I enjoyed previously as a contractor... I've been agonising over this decision for much of 2023, but I think ultimately working as a contractor suits me much better.

Handed my notice in on Thursday (which I think wasn't wholly unexpected but not taken particularly well) and phoned a couple of agents I know to be useful. Had three interviews since Friday so fingers crossed... The market seems red hot to me - perhaps this is industry dependent going by some other recent comments on this thread, but I've managed to stir up plenty of interest without applying in anger/visiting the job forums. I'd love to say that's because of the quality of my CV and sparkling personality, but I've only been a BA for 7 years so it's more likely reflective of the market rather than my CV.... I also know that from the other side of the table, we struggled to find good quality BA's this year offering £600p/d outside IR35.

I must admit though that I am finding the process of getting a contract emotionally draining - I don't get nervous before interviews anymore (I've had too many over the span of my career for that) and I'm only in the early stages of looking having recently given notice, but I've really not been myself this week. I'm lucky in that I don't suffer with any mental health/anxiety issues *touches wood*, but this week is the closest I've ever come to having feelings of anxiety. Maybe it's anxiety over leaving the relative security of a perm position, but in my head I'm very comfortable with my decision (or at least I think I am!).

[Fraidycat]

What is interesting is that after I started the role, the client said to me that they had found it difficult to find anyone

£350 a day is about £85K a year and some void period at end if you don't walk into another role.

£80K (£40per hour) was the going rate in the City in the mid 90s, 30 years ago!

They are not going to get many or any good CVs for that rate. If you are any good then they got lucky.