Reply to: State of the Market

[SchumiStars]

Is contracting dead these days then?

I've really just been freelancing the last couple of years. But i just had a look on Jobserve to see if i could land myself a big juicy money spinner, but i don't think there's even been a single job with my skillset been posted.

Has everywhere just outsourced to India having realised WFH means there's no point in having UK staff?

Lucky for me, I just managed to get my unaffordable home in London in decent shape after all these years, thinking that living and working in London would give me the best roles and rates.

Just imagine how popular HS2 will be now that everyone has worked out using teams is more efficient than travelling to major city for meetings.

WFH & outsourcing are bigger threats than IR35. At least with IR35, once the rates sorted themselves out, with contractor availability and skill set, it would have been manageable.

Outsourcing means for the same amount companies pay for a contractor they can get a company with contract sla in place.

WFH, means no office costs for the company so just end up working as a body shop.

In order since my last investment bank:
2020 IR35
2021 COVID (no contracts)
2022 WFH
2023 Immigration + outsourcing
2024 IT Recession

(Rough timeline)

[quackhandle]

It's been dead for years, is newly dead, is slowly dying or is making a spirited comeback depending on what bollox you've read from your left/right/center leaning news casts/pods/influencers.

Good luck.

qh

[Robinho]

Is contracting dead these days then?

I've really just been freelancing the last couple of years. But i just had a look on Jobserve to see if i could land myself a big juicy money spinner, but i don't think there's even been a single job with my skillset been posted.

Has everywhere just outsourced to India having realised WFH means there's no point in having UK staff?

[dsc]

I am more than well aware dsc ....I am one of these people 25 years plus experience and it is dire!

Strict working hours combined with long daily commutes plus rubbish pay are all part if it....even allowing for all of this I doubt it will happen as volume of applicants so it is pretty grim...how did it go so badly wrong for contractors!?!

In a way I have a feeling that UK was always pretty special when it came to people working as contractors, rates were pretty good for a long time and you could do it for years earning way less then permies, often doing exactly the same job (whether this was legal is another matter...) so for me it's more of a reality finally hitting everyone in the face. I'm actually more surprised how quickly it all went south, but then again I think it's the IR35 changes + IT recession that drove us here, so not just one factor.

As for not getting even tulip roles - remember often client / employers know that contractors are desperate at the moment and they will leave as soon as the market improves, so they prefer to go with someone less skilled, but also less confident and less likely to just bail when a new opportunity arises. Ideal candidate seems to be someone who accepts low rate thinking it's loads, hasn't got enough skills to jump ship (but enough to maybe be trained and do the job) and gratefully agrees with everything tulipe that the job offers / brings.

[Cookielove]

I am more than well aware dsc ....I am one of these people 25 years plus experience and it is dire!

Strict working hours combined with long daily commutes plus rubbish pay are all part if it....even allowing for all of this I doubt it will happen as volume of applicants so it is pretty grim...how did it go so badly wrong for contractors!?!

[dsc]

just wondering is the the norm now for hours as the landscape has changed ! and this is for far less ££

The norm now is that people with 20yrs of experience are benched for 12m+, clients / employers have a list of requirements which covers responsibilities of at least 3 senior roles and they are paying 50% of "normal" rates or less. So yes, the landscape has definitely changed and I think strict working hours are the least of our worries.

[pjt]

It is fine when wfh to flex you hours....but this is an office role so you can't turn up as and when ....that is the minimum set hours for the team...then the commute is a drive of at least an hour so leaving home say 7.30 maybe a little earlier and then getting home on a good run 6.30 at earliest....I think that is along day ...wfh it doesn't matter but if you add in at least 2 hours plus commuting !

Doubt it will come to fruition as so many applying...

Sounds like a pretty grim role. But in reality will it really pan out as bad as it looks on paper. In my experience most places are more flexiable than they document. Most places I've worked have been fairly relaxed on what hours are actually done as long as the work is getting done. I know personally my main aim is delivering the time it takes is irrelevant. Is the role 100% office based? I'd imagine if its that on paper even that may be up for negotation when you start. If not then I'd say this sounds like a dog of a place to work.

[Cookielove]

just wondering is the the norm now for hours as the landscape has changed ! and this is for far less ££

[Cookielove]

It is fine when wfh to flex you hours....but this is an office role so you can't turn up as and when ....that is the minimum set hours for the team...then the commute is a drive of at least an hour so leaving home say 7.30 maybe a little earlier and then getting home on a good run 6.30 at earliest....I think that is along day ...wfh it doesn't matter but if you add in at least 2 hours plus commuting !

Doubt it will come to fruition as so many applying...

[tjccjt01]

My LinkedIn feed is littered with recruitment staff out of work they seem to be having a rough time at the moment. Based off what I see on LinkedIn they are probably being hit worse than IT.

I had five people from the same agency contact me about the same role recently.

T

[ladymuck]

I've always ignored defined working hours and just worked what's needed. For the most part, my daily rates are for a 'professional working day' without any specific hours stipulated. But then I've been fortunate to not work places where clock watching and micro management is the norm.

[pjt]

When did 8.30 to 5.30 become the working hours?

Agency just rang me about a role and said these are the hours ...am used to 9 to 5...seems a lot when you factor in at least an hour's commute too...

I've never really taken much notice of working hours. I tend to work what hours I need to get the job done. It normally means I work more hours but sometimes I get away with less. I've never once been asked to justify my hours and if required to put in a timesheet I just put what I've done and invoice. Maybe due to doing more than less more often the times I get away with less never really get mentioned.

[Manic]

Another decent opportunity via a LinkedIn approach.

Trouble is, I'm awaiting sign-off on another one for a client that is known to me. Sod's law eh? Buses coming along two at once!

On the back of last week's flurry of activity on the same platform, it does give me some renewed hope for the market, and for all those on here that are looking.

When did 8.30 to 5.30 become the working hours?

Agency just rang me about a role and said these are the hours ...am used to 9 to 5...seems a lot when you factor in at least an hour's commute too...

That's a 40 hour week. Thankfully i work for an org which has a more sensible 35 hour week.

I work 45 though at least

[SchumiStars]

https://www.contractoruk.com/news/00..._november.html

[Cookielove]

is this now the standard....even more so when the day rates are slashed working more for less