I am another who went into contracting for more time off. Over twenty-five years, I rarely worked more than six months of the year. More recently, I did longer contracts but that's because of covid and looking after a kid.
The lifestyle was great but it did mean that I tended towards the tuliptier jobs that more professional people didn't need to take. Suited me fine.
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Reply to: State of the Market
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Previously on "State of the Market"
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Originally posted by barely_pointless View Post
I think Brexit has shrunk the EU resource pool somewhat, I was seeing quite a few Spanish - Polish etc, now not so much
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Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
Nope, I know very few contractors that used the flexibility to have much time off. I've met a lot that have wound down, finished early or have expensive hobbies in their later years though. So very few people taking breaks but plenty working a pot up enjoying it later.
Even in the good old days a break in your contract was a bit of a hump to get over. Plenty of threads even back then about how to hide gaps and why don't recruiters understand them but nothing like the problem it is now.
Dunno about the switching bit. I've seen plenty of contractors with a history of 6 months or less gigs and met others that have been 5 years plus with the same client. I don't see any change in that nowadays. It's only the tax regieme and the market that's changed the size of the projects and length of time to deliver them hasn't been impacted.
Some very wild assumptions in that paragraph.
Now it's a lot trickier to be able to time it working full time. I have managed to have time off over summer since 2020 but it's been mainly due to doing more fractional work where I'm doing typically 2-4 days a week for multiple clients. Obviously most contractors won't fit that pattern.
Having said all that, I'm waiting to hear back on a 12 month full time contract offer and if I get that there will be no summer holiday this year!
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Originally posted by Fraidycat View Post
When you add in the agent fees, 600 a day ends up being close to 15K per month.
Some clients will always think they can hire 2 or 3 permies for that much.
And its true if they look further a field, my last three roles have had permies from Greece/Spain/Eastern europe and Mexico on the team.
I think Brexit has shrunk the EU resource pool somewhat, I was seeing quite a few Spanish - Polish etc, now not so much
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Oddly the longest I went without a contract was following my longest ever contract which lasted nearly two and a half years. With hindsight - plus Brexit happened - I had a not very exciting contract at the top of my CV and agents didn't get past it.
Some clients like that you can come in for three to nine months to take a project over the line so there are no hard and fast rules about these things.
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Originally posted by dsc View PostI get that people don't just go in for the money, but the amount of people on this thread who say "I've been back to back, no breaks for 10+ yrs" tells me, that majority don't really take huge breaks, besides that seems to be impossible nowadays anyway (perhaps back in the good ol' days you could take 3months off and land a contract straight away in less than a week). Also people don't seem to switch that often, unless tulip is really bad and market is super hot.
Even in the good old days a break in your contract was a bit of a hump to get over. Plenty of threads even back then about how to hide gaps and why don't recruiters understand them but nothing like the problem it is now.
Dunno about the switching bit. I've seen plenty of contractors with a history of 6 months or less gigs and met others that have been 5 years plus with the same client. I don't see any change in that nowadays. It's only the tax regieme and the market that's changed the size of the projects and length of time to deliver them hasn't been impacted.
Some very wild assumptions in that paragraph.
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Originally posted by sreed View Post
Are inside contractors really paid all that much more than perm staff? They are paid more for sure but nothing that screams jackpot. As per my experience at least as a generalist PM contractor.
The last few inside roles I did for day rates in the region of 550-600, the equivalent on permie grades was around 60-65k (in the PS) and 70-80k (plus a small annual bonus) in an FS firm. Overall, and especially from the pov of cost to the client/employer , it’s not a huge lot more is it considering holidays, employer NI, pension contributions, long notice period, sick leave, etc etc.
Maybe I’m in the minority, but I didn’t pivot to becoming a contractor just for the money. It was equally to do with flexibility and balance of power. Being able to avoid office politics, tell dickhead clients to FO if I wished to, being able to move on from toxic workplaces seamlessly, take summers off if I wished to, etc.
I get that people don't just go in for the money, but the amount of people on this thread who say "I've been back to back, no breaks for 10+ yrs" tells me, that majority don't really take huge breaks, besides that seems to be impossible nowadays anyway (perhaps back in the good ol' days you could take 3months off and land a contract straight away in less than a week). Also people don't seem to switch that often, unless tulip is really bad and market is super hot.
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Originally posted by sreed View PostThe last few inside roles I did for day rates in the region of 550-600
Some clients will always think they can hire 2 or 3 permies for that much.
And its true if they look further a field, my last three roles have had permies from Greece/Spain/Eastern europe and Mexico on the team.Last edited by Fraidycat; Yesterday, 16:04.
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Originally posted by dsc View Post
The money the contractor is on and that's why there's such a huge interest in becoming a "contractor", most people see it as steady income which is 2-3 times what you get as a perm. Very often even the work is the same, so why be the "dumb" one and go perm?
The reality now with majority of contracts being inside is actually how it should be imho, outside shouldn't be the norm, especially not with how clients treat (or want to treat) contractors ie. as employees effectively.
As for training costs / upskilling - this is the new norm for perm anyway, no one wants to pay for training people hence trying to find someone with the most amount of skills, so that they can just work straight away. If perm people can do this as well, why take on an inside "contractor" and pay them more? (note that it's probably different with contractors who work directly with clients and they have an on-going relationship, the client knows damn well the contractor can deliver, so they are OK with paying a premium price as they know work will get delivered properly).
The last few inside roles I did for day rates in the region of 550-600, the equivalent on permie grades was around 60-65k (in the PS) and 70-80k (plus a small annual bonus) in an FS firm. Overall, and especially from the pov of cost to the client/employer , it’s not a huge lot more is it considering holidays, employer NI, pension contributions, long notice period, sick leave, etc etc.
Maybe I’m in the minority, but I didn’t pivot to becoming a contractor just for the money. It was equally to do with flexibility and balance of power. Being able to avoid office politics, tell dickhead clients to FO if I wished to, being able to move on from toxic workplaces seamlessly, take summers off if I wished to, etc.Last edited by sreed; Yesterday, 15:54.
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Originally posted by quackhandle View Post
You should have quite a decent warchest then?
qh
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Originally posted by ResistanceFighter View PostWhat a dramatic change from being back to back with no gaps for the 10+ years previous.
qh
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Originally posted by ResistanceFighter View PostGetting to the end of April, and been looking since end of November last year.
had only a handful of calls, 2 interviews, 1 turned into an offer but I turned it down as the rate was just insulting.
What a dramatic change from being back to back with no gaps for the 10+ years previous.
Things need to change though right? The work itself didn't just fall off a cliff, it will need doing eventually
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Originally posted by WTFH View Post
It's the way of a contractor, otherwise what is the difference between you and the employee sitting at the desk beside you?
[...]
The reality now with majority of contracts being inside is actually how it should be imho, outside shouldn't be the norm, especially not with how clients treat (or want to treat) contractors ie. as employees effectively.
As for training costs / upskilling - this is the new norm for perm anyway, no one wants to pay for training people hence trying to find someone with the most amount of skills, so that they can just work straight away. If perm people can do this as well, why take on an inside "contractor" and pay them more? (note that it's probably different with contractors who work directly with clients and they have an on-going relationship, the client knows damn well the contractor can deliver, so they are OK with paying a premium price as they know work will get delivered properly).
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Originally posted by WTFH View Post
It's the way of a contractor, otherwise what is the difference between you and the employee sitting at the desk beside you?
Outside IR35 contractors come in, deliver a piece of work as part of a project because they have the knowledge and skill to do that, then they move on because the project is complete. Pretty much anything else should really be considered inside IR35.
My point about the market for contractors was more general - boiling it down to a flexible expert resource that a business can employ/hire without any long term commitment, training costs, upskilling, etc.
Outside, inside, even some FTCs I would argue can fall under that broad umbrella. I've done 'outside' contracts that might be inside or an FTC in a bigger co and inside contracts that would be outside in a smaller co. And personally, I don't really give a tulip about what it's called as long as it's not perm employment, I'm not tied to the client and I get paid what I need.
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Originally posted by dsc View Post
Sure but lets be honest, how many contractors are currently "used" that way? it's a nice idea, but most don't want to work this way and most employers don't really want the temp resource to work that way either.
Outside IR35 contractors come in, deliver a piece of work as part of a project because they have the knowledge and skill to do that, then they move on because the project is complete. Pretty much anything else should really be considered inside IR35.
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