Reply to: State of the Market

[ConsultingTechArchitect]

What they haven't made clear is that £400/day is for both roles

Inside IR35 for £400... Might as well get a perm job.

[Paralytic]

Here is my surprise of the day.


URGENT APPLICATION DEVELOPER CONTRACT

"Currently, we are seeking an Application Developer - Cloud Microservices for a 6 months'+ contract position on an ASAP Government Project.
Role: 2x Application Developer - Cloud Microservices (SC Cleared/Eligible)
Location: Leicester / Remote
Duration: 6-12Months / Possible extensions
Rate:£400 per day - Inside of IR35
"

What they haven't made clear is that £400/day is for both roles

[rocktronAMP]

Just had an agent contact me about an inside role 40% below my current rate.

When I mentioned the rate was unacceptable I was asked if I would consider it as a second concurrent contract!

Desperate times, indeed. Dudie.
I am laughing my head off, but when I stop laughing and think sensibly about the second income, then how does fly in terms of family commitment, leisure / work.
The agent is clueless about PAYE / IR35 / Off Payroll Woker rules

Here is my surprise of the day.


URGENT APPLICATION DEVELOPER CONTRACT

"Currently, we are seeking an Application Developer - Cloud Microservices for a 6 months'+ contract position on an ASAP Government Project.
Role: 2x Application Developer - Cloud Microservices (SC Cleared/Eligible)
Location: Leicester / Remote
Duration: 6-12Months / Possible extensions
Rate:£400 per day - Inside of IR35
"

The daily rate is £100 to £150 off the London / Hybrid that I have seen recently.

[TheDude]

Just had an agent contact me about an inside role 40% below my current rate.

When I mentioned the rate was unacceptable I was asked if I would consider it as a second concurrent contract!

[edison]

One agent I spoke to admitted that they are having to skim money off the top of BAs and tester rates in order to offer high enough rates for developers and they are still a way off market rates.

Anecdotally, I've heard this is becoming more common now with security and developer roles, contract and perm.

[TheDude]

Ah. Thank you Eek. This is useful to know there is no flim-flam on the SDS. I know of one contractor, who left us 1 month ago, they said they obtained Outside IR35 gig. I thought they were a pulling a fast-one. The inflexibility makes total sense, because the consultancies have a fixed budget and already tendered for the contract.

If they can't hire developers of sufficient quality then their bid process is flawed.

One agent I spoke to admitted that they are having to skim money off the top of BAs and tester rates in order to offer high enough rates for developers and they are still a way off market rates.

[rocktronAMP]

Nope HMRC outsource a whole pile of development work and if it's outside it really will be outside.

However rates were probably set a while back so don't reflect the current market and yes HMRC won't be flexible.

Ah. Thank you Eek. This is useful to know there is no flim-flam on the SDS. I know of one contractor, who left us 1 month ago, they said they obtained Outside IR35 gig. I thought they were a pulling a fast-one. The inflexibility makes total sense, because the consultancies have a fixed budget and already tendered for the contract.

[eek]

The irony of the above is telling.

It sounds to me like fake news, because ultimately the fee-payer in the off-payroll rules since 2021 is the HMRC themselves making Status Determination Statements; so are they (agencies / big four consultancies) making it up as they go along?

Nope HMRC outsource a whole pile of development work and if it's outside it really will be outside.

However rates were probably set a while back so don't reflect the current market and yes HMRC won't be flexible.

[rocktronAMP]

I am being approached on a daily basis for outside roles at HMRC.

Either HMRC or the firms working for them are extremely inflexible about rates which is a shame because I quite fancy working for them.

The irony of the above is telling.

It sounds to me like fake news, because ultimately the fee-payer in the off-payroll rules since 2021 is the HMRC themselves making Status Determination Statements; so are they (agencies / big four consultancies) making it up as they go along?

[KentDogWalker]

If you are in the wrong ecosystem, you might think that.

All the REACT/ AWS/ Golang people I know are earning over £700 a day. Highest is £850 outside. I know because I can see the billable rates and the agencies are on a fixed margin.

If you look on Jobserve, there are similar sounding roles paying £300, and those contractors would likely bite your hand off to get £500.

Neither group is wrong.

react market is dead atm, calls dried up with all the stocks crashing and inflation

[TheDude]

I am being approached on a daily basis for outside roles at HMRC.

Either HMRC or the firms working for them are extremely inflexible about rates which is a shame because I quite fancy working for them.

[TheDude]

Why would you not work for a Russian company? Don't understand this at all. On similar lines of Wimbledon banning Russian players pretty much.

1. It's an easy way for me to make a big deal about making a stand without actually inconveniencing myself in the slightest - kind of like when Guardian readers made a big show of boycotting Sports Direct when they wouldn't have been seen dead there in the first place.

2. I inherited their code on a previous project and it was quite obvious that they threw poor quality developers at projects.

[Lance]

Why would you not work for a Russian company? Don't understand this at all. On similar lines of Wimbledon banning Russian players pretty much.

morals. scruples. reputation.

I'm quite mercenary but I draw the line somewhere.

[avonleigh]

The original company was Russian which would have been enough for me to reject them even if I hadn't seen examples of their work before.

Why would you not work for a Russian company? Don't understand this at all. On similar lines of Wimbledon banning Russian players pretty much.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

If you are in the wrong ecosystem, you might think that.

All the REACT/ AWS/ Golang people I know are earning over £700 a day. Highest is £850 outside. I know because I can see the billable rates and the agencies are on a fixed margin.

If you look on Jobserve, there are similar sounding roles paying £300, and those contractors would likely bite your hand off to get £500.

Neither group is wrong.

Fair points, well made - I am trying to switch ecosystems as we speak