Reply to: State of the Market

[sadkingbilly]

And you cycled to work on your penny farthing!

Triumph Bonneville or cortina 2.0 E, depending on weather/mood/location. (70's)

[fatJock]

Suppose your company has financial obligations of its own - car lease, flat lease, life assurance, joint-shareholder, all of which require paying at some point. I'm not saying my company has these commitments currently but it has in the past. What do you do to meet those commitments? Pay into your company from the proceeds of heavily taxed inside income? What about expenses incurred in the context of servicing that inside contract? i live about 240 miles from London when I'm in the UK, or 1,400 if I'm out in Spain. Without the ability to claim those expenses, which over my 10 year stint working in London finance averaged out at around £ 30k p.a., I'd have to stump up those expenses, again out of heavily taxed income. And of course, most of the rates, even in London finance for inside roles aren't really that much more than what they were when they were outside.

That's just the financial side. Any company that couldn't give a rats arse about the suppliers they work with, well it says it all to me.

I operate inside and outside depending on the gig - my company has the funds to meet it's obligations from 8 years of such mixed trading. Having zero income on principle is a larger problem given you can always loan in money to your company as a director. As for expenses - you figure out what you'd lose and you compensate for it in an increased day rate.

My inside rate is 25% more than my outside rate and I tend to only work on gigs that are predominantly WFH. In my personal situation working inside or outside is financially irrelvant.

[Protagoras]

I find it impossible to believe that, absent of any disabilities that might limit their scope, anyone is unable to find paid work within 2 years, so I assume you have a healthy warchest or some other type of income and are patiently waiting for something that you consider appropriate to your expectations rather than anything which will pay the bills.

I think it depends on personal circumstances, but the big challenge after a long absence is surely convincing anyone that one has current skill and domain knowledge.

[Protagoras]

you forgot the 70's and 80's.
When real freelance contracting was around.

I rather assumed (possibility incorrectly) that anyone contracting in the 70s or 80s would have retired in a life of luxury some time ago, and wouldn't be reading about the state of the market

[SussexSeagull]

Couple of responses to points raised:

There is only so much the UK government, of any colour, can do. They can restrict Visas but it is very difficult to stop companies offshoring work, especially when you consider most of these companies are international anyway. As it stands Indian offshoring is much cheaper than getting it done in the UK (granted that doesn't take into account quality or getting it right first time but accountants run the show).

If you are semi retired and in a financial position to hold on for an outside contract then fair enough but for the rest of us it gets to a time being out of work where you either go inside, FTC, permit or find something else to do. The market does decide these things.

[avonleigh]

I think after 3 months I would be taking whatever work I can find, inside IR35, FTC, perm etc. Perhaps you already have.

After 6 months I would be very seriously looking at retraining or some other way of switching into an occupation where I had a good chance of finding reasonably paid work, even if it wasn't the big bucks I might have been accustomed to previously.

I find it impossible to believe that, absent of any disabilities that might limit their scope, anyone is unable to find paid work within 2 years, so I assume you have a healthy warchest or some other type of income and are patiently waiting for something that you consider appropriate to your expectations rather than anything which will pay the bills.

My thoughts too. Find it incredible anybody can last 2-3 years without working in this day and age when everything is so expensive. I personally could get to 18 months with savings. But as you say 3 months out I would also be taking whatever I could. 12 months out I would be getting out of IT and doing something else altogether.

[Snooky]

Starting year3 on the bench

I think after 3 months I would be taking whatever work I can find, inside IR35, FTC, perm etc. Perhaps you already have.

After 6 months I would be very seriously looking at retraining or some other way of switching into an occupation where I had a good chance of finding reasonably paid work, even if it wasn't the big bucks I might have been accustomed to previously.

I find it impossible to believe that, absent of any disabilities that might limit their scope, anyone is unable to find paid work within 2 years, so I assume you have a healthy warchest or some other type of income and are patiently waiting for something that you consider appropriate to your expectations rather than anything which will pay the bills.

[oliverson]

you forgot the 70's and 80's.
When real freelance contracting was around.

And you cycled to work on your penny farthing!

[sadkingbilly]

The halcyon days of the 90s and 00s have gone.

you forgot the 70's and 80's.
When real freelance contracting was around.

[Protagoras]

IMHO, this is the new norm. Until we get a government that priorities the people already living here, outsourcing, offshoring, nearshoring and so on will continue to dominate.

In addition to this the pledge of the Conservatives to now review IR35 again, they've got balls, I'll give them that.

This is a 'contractor' site but most of the items in "latest contractor news & guides" seem to be about pseudo-employment via umbrella companies, not contracting as we knew it. The message is there.

The halcyon days of the 90s and 00s have gone. Government has closed down the sector, and it's not going to be attractive to new entrants, so will slowly just fade away.

Too late for the so-called "Conservatives" to reform anything, they had the chance and chose other stakeholders' interests over those of people working in the UK.

I don't think it will get better anytime soon; before that I expect a stock market correction. Harder times ahead, if anything.

[oliverson]

Just had a spam email from computer futures. TBF, it's more than welcome as I can't remember the last time I had one from them.

Starting year3 on the bench. Might find a new hobby.

You must be going insane heading into your third year!

8 months for me. I've decided not to stress about it and enjoy the rest of this month out in Spain because the weather is superb currently and by the end of the month it's clock change, which tends to signal to me it's time to prepare to return home and knuckle down for the winter.

[SchumiStars]

Just had a spam email from computer futures. TBF, it's more than welcome as I can't remember the last time I had one from them.

Starting year3 on the bench. Might find a new hobby.

[hobnob]

Suppose your company has financial obligations of its own - car lease, flat lease, life assurance, joint-shareholder, all of which require paying at some point. I'm not saying my company has these commitments currently but it has in the past. What do you do to meet those commitments? Pay into your company from the proceeds of heavily taxed inside income?

Assuming that the company doesn't have any cash reserves to handle those obligations, I think there are 2 options:

a) Close down the company, and then open a new one if/when you get another outside contract.

b) Transfer money into the company as a director loan. Yes, this money will come from your net salary (after tax/NI), but if you get another outside contract later then the company can re-pay the loan and you won't be taxed on that "income" (money going into your personal account) a second time.

You have the same two options whether you're on the bench or doing an inside contract, but the inside contract should give you more disposable income (making option b a bit easier).

[jamesbrown]

I don't know about the 90th percentile of day rates, but 90% of the arguments in this thread stem from different people competing in different markets. It was always a silly thread. Good for a laugh, though

[Dorkeaux]

And how very timely, just got off the phone to one of our Indian friends looking for a backend contractor, London 3 days a week, Inside IR35, £ 400 / day.

THAT, ladies and gentlemen is the state of the market!

Don't think so.

The market is not the same thing as the kite-flying lowball roles posted by randos.
Linkedin, Jobserve, my phone and inbox are crammed with these roles obviously at the low end of the bell curve.
That's why there are so many of them. No one takes them, so all the "agents" efforts go into promoting them.
It's alway been this way, even in the good times.

To put it another way, I work in buildings full of other contractors. I'm pretty sure (but not certain) that none of the independents are on 400 squid a day.

Just nothingburger the obvious desperate shilling roles, the remainder will provide a clearer picture of the market.

IT Jobs Watch has the 90th percentile (we're all there, right?) of IT contractors in London at 775/day or greater.
YMMV.
Contractor UK has some stats as well. That's right Oliverson. Stats..