Reply to: State of the Market

[WTFH]

It really isn't so easy when you have been contracting for such a long time. I have been contracting 27 years. Been applying for permie roles since 2020. Barely had an interview, lost count of how many roles I have applied for. Did have a second interview last week for a role that is ideal. Interviewed really well but think it's a no again.

What makes you think it's a no?

In interviews when I get asked if I have any questions, one of the ones I normally ask the interviewers is along the lines of:
"Have you any concerns/reasons why you would NOT give me this role?"

It puts them on the spot and will normally get fairly honest responses from them that will focus on your experience (e.g. in their industry/type of business/etc), or for a permanent role they will be asking "what makes us believe that you won't jump ship as soon as you get your first contract offer?" Think about questions like that and how you can answer/reassure them. Talk about how you have worked on long projects and are driven by getting things delivered, talk about looking for stability/security/how you're tired of living out of a suitcase, whatever.

[avonleigh]

It really isn't so easy when you have been contracting for such a long time. I have been contracting 27 years. Been applying for permie roles since 2020. Barely had an interview, lost count of how many roles I have applied for. Did have a second interview last week for a role that is ideal. Interviewed really well but think it's a no again.

[Fraidycat]

I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

I would say don't go for junior roles. Waste of time unless the wolf is at the door. At a minimum look for mid level roles. In the 40K to 65K range. Here they are looking for experienced people but struggle to find anyone because the pay is low. There seems to be no shortage of such roles.

[Bluenose]

Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

Might as well take a permie role for 24 months and come back here.

[dsc]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

Just say you've had enough of contracting instability and want a nice, steady position. Seems to work for me.

As for going for any role, you probably need to dumb down your cv for entry roles, as I doubt a lot of companies would take on someone way overqualified. If you are in a dire financial situation then any job will be better than no job. Best of luck!

[escapeUK]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

Can't you just say, at this stage in your career you would like the stability of a perm role? Holiday pay, sickness pay, pension, just list a few of the things that the interviewer will no doubt see as benefits they too enjoy. What you must not come over is as a contractor who just wants to take a perm role to make ends meet for 6 months, even if that is the case!

[umeshk]

I've been benched for almost 5 months now, running on fumes now financially. I've been on a couple of permie interviews, but trying to explain why I want to go back to perm role after contracting seems to be a hurdle I'm not able to get over. I've even got to a point I'm going for perm roles with salaries when I first started in IT in my early 20's. Is that a mistake, or should I just take it on the chin, take the role to atleast have income?

[CoolCat]

The UK stock market is only up because the pound has gone down against the dollar, and any predicted dividends look higher in dollars with the new exchange rates... so people are prepared to pay more for stock with the same dollar returns

On the other hand any Brit invested in US stocks, will see they have gained massively in the last few months

FTSE ALL TIME HIGH! Meanwhile

“Today’s jobs figures are surprisingly poor, with a steep fall in employment and a sharp rise in those out of work, including an unexpected rise in unemployment,” Tony Wilson, the director at the Institute for Employment Studies, said.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...interest-rates

[edison]

The UK stock market (FTSE100 or FTSE250) isn't powering towards anything. Their performance over the last decade has been staggeringly bad (as per Reuters):

NASDAQ +388%
S&P500 +259%
Nikkei Japan + 138%
Eursostoxx +62%
FTSE100 +13%
FTSE250 MINUS 17%

The UK market weighting in the MCSI world index has halved in the last 15 years. It seems hardly any investors want to buy UK stocks and it's not surprising considering the dull plodding companies that make up most of the index.

Between the two indices, it gives a good idea of how UK companies are poor wealth creators and by extension, well paid job creators.

[dsc]

[...] including an unexpected rise in unemployment,”[...]

That's one way to bring down inflation even further...

[tsmith]

The FTSE 250 is a better indicator of the state of the UK contract market and it is still way off its high.

But in general the UK stock market is a joke compared to the US, Microsoft was recently worth more than the entire FTSE 100 combined, and you could buy the whole of the FTSE 250 as-well with the change you had left over.

Jobserve headline number can fluctuate quite a bit intra week as sometimes they seem to clear out the database and repopulate it, so some days it can under report.

As for references, you could give the annoying agent your previous Agency as the reference if you don't want to give them the end client.

FTSE ALL TIME HIGH! Meanwhile

“Today’s jobs figures are surprisingly poor, with a steep fall in employment and a sharp rise in those out of work, including an unexpected rise in unemployment,” Tony Wilson, the director at the Institute for Employment Studies, said.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...interest-rates

[Fraidycat]

FTSE powering towards 9K but Jobserve vacancies have now collapsed to 23K. Something has to give.

There's been an uptick in agents asking for references

The FTSE 250 is a better indicator of the state of the UK contract market and it is still way off its high.

But in general the UK stock market is a joke compared to the US, Microsoft was recently worth more than the entire FTSE 100 combined, and you could buy the whole of the FTSE 250 as-well with the change you had left over.

Jobserve headline number can fluctuate quite a bit intra week as sometimes they seem to clear out the database and repopulate it, so some days it can under report.

As for references, you could give the annoying agent your previous Agency as the reference if you don't want to give them the end client.

[DrGUID]

FTSE powering towards 9K but Jobserve vacancies have now collapsed to 23K. Something has to give.

Getting the occasional interview but it's one a week rather than two a day like in normal times.

There's been an uptick in agents asking for references (but the other candidates are supplying them). The latest is long conversation followed by an email with no job spec, just space for me to add my referees.

Not much on the boards apart from the numerous Noir ghost vacancies.

It kind of feels like 2002 when the general economy motored along but IT was in an epic hangover (and the FTSE did indeed collapse).

I will continue working on side projects...

[gables]

For permie roles it seems that "internal hires" is the go-to term these days. Certainly explains the amount of rejections even for close to perfect fits. Or so I keep telling myself

And tbh I think that's how it should always have been (i.e. give someone a chance of promotion\change etc and then backfill their old position) but the role shouldn't be externally advertised until the internal route is exhausted.

[SpliterOfLogs]

I'm another who was a contractor because it allowed me to take more time off, did that for 15 years. Pre-covid I almost never worked during the summer months, through choice, never stopped me finding new gigs. But it does seem like those days are over. I took a perm role in feb 2020 after 6 months on the bench, unfortunately it was in crypto, so that blew up by the end of 2022 - found a contract out of the wreckage of that, which took me to November 2023. Since then, nothing. Many applications but just tumble weed.

Still can't quite believe I'm seeing gigs advertised at rates I was getting 15 years ago.

But I do have an interview for a contract role today, so fingers crossed...