Reply to: State of the Market

[ladymuck]

That's a valid point, I was even thinking of it. But the agent is on a fixed margin. It could be somewhere around 10%-15%. But my end goal was to be in good terms with the client as they have recently started taking contractors directly. I do not want them to think that I am a trouble maker especially during the renewals.

I may have lost some revenue on renewal but I have gained a client who trusts me. This is the rapport and trust I want to build. It may not bring immediate business or benefits but the message of trust has been sent and implanted.

By the way I have done it in spite of numerous outside roles I received where the rates are little bit higher than my current role for my skillset. But I need a client who trusts and feels that they can fall back on me any time and that message has been sent really well.

That's a really good approach. I have a repeat client who I go back to every few years who likes me because I have lots of domain knowledge and yet am not going to take the mickey on rates. I know their internal processes well enough to not get the hump when paperwork takes a while and know the manglement well enough to be comfortable working at risk.

That kind of working relationship is not worth risking for an extra £50 a day rate increase. I just up it the next time they call me up

[BigDataPro]

Are you through an agent, do you know what the agent cut is?
If the agent is on a big enough margin you could of played harder ball...

That's a valid point, I was even thinking of it. But the agent is on a fixed margin. It could be somewhere around 10%-15%. But my end goal was to be in good terms with the client as they have recently started taking contractors directly. I do not want them to think that I am a trouble maker especially during the renewals.

I may have lost some revenue on renewal but I have gained a client who trusts me. This is the rapport and trust I want to build. It may not bring immediate business or benefits but the message of trust has been sent and implanted.

By the way I have done it in spite of numerous outside roles I received where the rates are little bit higher than my current role for my skillset. But I need a client who trusts and feels that they can fall back on me any time and that message has been sent really well.

[Fraidycat]

Client asked today if I am interested in 8 months extension but apologised that they cannot increase the rate.

Are you through an agent, do you know what the agent cut is?
If the agent is on a big enough margin you could of played harder ball.
Thats what i did, latest renewal i demanded a rate increase (or no renewal on my end if i didnt get it), knowing that if the client couldn't do it the agent almost certainly could.
The client agreed anyway and so the agent got off lightly.

Im going to keep on using the strategy once a year, until the agent margin is cut down to the bone, then i cant use it anymore.

[quackhandle]

Finish next Wed, so on the bench from 1st July. Looking at jobserve for last month or so, started about 60/40 for Inside/Outside gigs, now seems to be 80/20.

Any outside gigs on my sector/skillset seem to get jumped on vey quickly.

qh

[ladymuck]

Started current gig on Day 1 of Lockdown 1 last year. Expect to see the rest of this year out but extensions are three monthly so paperwork is on its way to cover July - September. I think this will be the longest gig I've had by the time I finish but I see no reason to move on for the sake of it.

[uk contractor]

Congrats. It is booming indeed. Client asked today if I am interested in 8 months extension but apologised that they cannot increase the rate. I told them "No problem {My Lord}. It gives me immense pleasure to continue serving you .... yada yada!"

Thanks mate yeah 8 months extension is good right now sign that & hope 8 means the full 8! (sure it will economy is skyrocketing as Tories clearly told big business in private no more lockdowns looming & things starting to open up again!)

[BigDataPro]

Boom boom boom boom keep looking everyone please do not give up it might seem bad (and it is very tough right now). Just managed to secure a 6 month gig with a previous banking client I should never have left....now for the onboarding process inevitable delay (s)

Congrats. It is booming indeed. Client asked today if I am interested in 8 months extension but apologised that they cannot increase the rate. I told them "No problem {My Lord}. It gives me immense pleasure to continue serving you .... yada yada!"

[GigiBronz]

You really need to snap out of this woe-is-me nonsense. If you're struggling as a contractor, it's probably your attitude or your skillset or both, so fix them. There is no conspiracy. You're (seemingly) too young to be this negative about everything.

I very much think it is the reality. Sure a bit too young but still looking at the future prospects I feel hopeless.
I wish I could snap out of it, it will probably do me a lot of good mentally.

Conspiracy is a bad word, it is just how the world works. I am not the only one saying that. This is only an example:

About the struggling part, I am very aware as well that my attitude is my problem and in parts technical ability (depending on role) but look where blaming yourself for everything leads -> we have a society of beta wagecucks that have no control of their lives or time. Told what to do at every step. Do you think that is better? Look what all this equalitarian nonsense is doing the mental health of the population: keeps people chasing their tail drowning in nonsense.

Only together we will succeed to bring back the previous market and that means asking for outside contracts even if you are not interested in a role. Educating clients and standing your ground with agents even if you have to put food on your table and large mortgage over your head.

[jamesbrown]

Stuff

You really need to snap out of this woe-is-me nonsense. If you're struggling as a contractor, it's probably your attitude or your skillset or both, so fix them. There is no conspiracy. You're (seemingly) too young to be this negative about everything.

[GigiBronz]

I mean something that isn't (increasingly) generalist, like programming. Now is not the best time to judge the medium- to long-term prospects for generalists in a remote working context because we've had a historic suppression of activity followed by a historic spike in activity (now), coupled with mandated (or strongly encouraged) remote working. Forecasting in the middle of a pandemic is, er, ambitious.

The idea that remote working will improve the pay prospects of generalists in countries with high labour costs is contrary to all the evidence from the UK and elsewhere in recent years (say, post-2000). It may improve their opportunities in an arithmetic way, but that is also true for their competition in cheaper labour markets and the idea that expensive labour markets retain the "best" generalists is also fanciful nowadays.

In rich countries, globalisation (of labour markets) has always disproportionately benefited the very highly skilled and disadvantaged the less skilled. Programmers will only benefit, overall, if this leads to increased demand for programmers, overall, but that will likely not be reflected in pay because there are plenty of cheap labour markets that can fill the gap. What has happened to pay for C++/Java programmers since, say, 2000 in the UK? Falling and then static at best, I would imagine.

It is harder (but not impossible) to expand elite skillsets in cheap labour markets because elite skillsets require elite educational institutions and elite working environments, which require massive investment and time. Of course, even the elite skills will be replicated eventually, but only when the cheap labour markets become expensive.

I think it is a bit naive to think that market forces still dictate the market. (and do hope that I am really wrong about it)

In developed countries, corporate word is colluding with the gov to bring resources from outside to depress wages because: people are more likely to work harder when they cannot afford to retire or save enough to leave a role without a job lined up. They tend to be a bit more docile since the 9-5 takes the bad energy out of them and they can't revolt.

It is basically what US, UK has been doing with H1B's visas, or indian consultancies.

Or they can hire a crowd or recruiters to push their agenda, so you get 10 recruiters telling you 70k is your price. Do you say no to all of them and still have the stamina to look further (with a mortgage over your head) or you succumb and take one?

It's no conspiracy, just how economy works. The same reason inflation exists, to erode savings so that human capital does not leave the economy.


On the brighter side the market was picking up strongly in May, got slower beginning of June (probably holiday season) now is getting strong again. I've had 6-7 enquiries only since Monday, all outside roles, good rates: 450-650. (Python dev generalist, I am specialised in a different sector but no longer consider roles there)

Previous two months have been on average let's say with occasional 1-3roles/month that I would not hear back from them.

[uk contractor]

Boom boom boom boom keep looking everyone please do not give up it might seem bad (and it is very tough right now). Just managed to secure a 6 month gig with a previous banking client I should never have left....now for the onboarding process inevitable delay (s)

[SteelyDan]

Business Analyst
Reading, Berkshire - £130 per Day
Inside IR35.

Business Analyst - Reading Berkshire - June-22-2021 (L8H2D) (jobserve.com)

Things picking up then...

[Fraidycat]

yes inside ir35
are you including holiday pay with the umbrella?

Yes, if you are on an inside rate of £800 a day and you take 30 days a year holiday and/or sick, after taxes and umbrella fees your take home is slightly over £8000 a month.

Ofcourse you can choose to take less days off and so earn more, but I was comparing it to what perm people take off.

[founder]

yes inside ir35

Do you mean inside IR35.

Perms can take home 4 to 5K a month basic + bonus and benefits

So I think you would need to take home 7K to make contracting worthwhile although i personally would want at least 8K . That equates to 800 a day inside IR35 if you take average number of days off.

are you including holiday pay with the umbrella?

[Fraidycat]

What is good take-home pay for an IR35 role today?

5K? 7K?

Do you mean inside IR35.

Perms can take home 4 to 5K a month basic + bonus and benefits

So I think you would need to take home 7K to make contracting worthwhile although i personally would want at least 8K . That equates to 800 a day inside IR35 if you take average number of days off.