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Previously on "State of the Market"

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  • GigiBronz
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post
    I know people who have sacked people who have no P45. A P45 is proof of several things.
    1) That you actually had the last job on your CV.
    2) That you haven't lied about your salary.
    Lied about your salary and proof of your previous job? Why would you tell them your previous salary?
    Are you sure you are actually a contractor and not a 12y old spamming this forum?[/QUOTE]

    Contractors have only minimum wage on their payroll and the rest as dividends. What do you think they would find useful out of that information?

    Also there are people that manage other things and have additional income from different sources. Self employment. Management companies. Of course you would not want to disclose that.

    If a company would fire you for not disclosing how much you are earning than that is a big red flag and you shouldn't be there in the first place, they want a wage cuck and they want you to come for it every month and not dare contradict your manager because your entire financial situations depends on it.
    That is how modern slavery works and the West is full of it.

    Originally posted by Lance View Post
    Whilst it may not be mandatory to provide a P45 for legal reasons, it's also not mandatory for the employer to not suspect that you're up to something dodgy.
    In this exact case we're talking about it is dodgy.
    Most of the issues I have found so far were with companies being less upfront about the role, trying to oversell or push you into corners.
    You sell your experience and time for a wage, you do good work and get paid, they are not signing you up to be the next Pope.

    Originally posted by Lance View Post
    And there's no need to start handing out abuse. I've not made an personal accusations against you. Keep that tulipe for General.
    If you are sensitive about what other people say in regards to your posts, maybe it is because there is a reason for it.
    It is a forum for free speech and sharing information. If someone thinks what I say is nonsense, not only I won't be bothered by it, I EXPECT TO BE CALLED OUT in the interest of accuracy. Nobody knows who I/you are so why should we care? The purpose here is to share information.

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonManc
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

    If they had to call you then I'd agree
    I didn't even have myself as open to new roles, they were just fishing around I guess. If you're a recruiter in the BI space, at least take some time to understand the various roles within it, i.e. the people that you'll be searching for.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fraidycat
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post

    I know people who have sacked people who have no P45. A P45 is proof of several things.
    1) That you actually had the last job on your CV.
    2) That you haven't lied about your salary.

    Whilst it may not be mandatory to provide a P45 for legal reasons, it's also not mandatory for the employer to not suspect that you're up to something dodgy.
    In this exact case we're talking about it is dodgy.

    And there's no need to start handing out abuse. I've not made an personal accusations against you. Keep that tulipe for General.
    But the guy in question is an ex contractor. Might not have P45 or operated payroll, eg only took divis from Ltd.
    The new company will be aware he is an ex contractor status.

    Now a perm hire with no P45, that might well be considered a red flag.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lance
    replied
    Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post

    I am not sure where you are coming up with this. Nobody will fire you for not providing an P45, it is just nonsense.
    You overpay or underpay and get it back at the end of the year. Emergency tax code is fine also.

    How are you a good contractor and not have the ability to circumvent nonsense?
    I know people who have sacked people who have no P45. A P45 is proof of several things.
    1) That you actually had the last job on your CV.
    2) That you haven't lied about your salary.

    Whilst it may not be mandatory to provide a P45 for legal reasons, it's also not mandatory for the employer to not suspect that you're up to something dodgy.
    In this exact case we're talking about it is dodgy.

    And there's no need to start handing out abuse. I've not made an personal accusations against you. Keep that tulipe for General.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    The actual issue for the person with two full time jobs would be double use of NI allowances - although I'm not sure how that would play out.

    Leave a comment:


  • GigiBronz
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post
    You said....

    Now bear in mind that no P45 equals tax overpayment not underpayment.... and you then realise why I asked....
    Are you sure that an employer will tax you based on information you provide rather than a P45? I reckon they'll put you on emergency tax code, and if no P45 arrives in a few months HR will sack you.
    I am not sure where you are coming up with this. Nobody will fire you for not providing an P45, it is just nonsense.
    You overpay or underpay and get it back at the end of the year. Emergency tax code is fine also.

    How are you a good contractor and not have the ability to circumvent nonsense?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lance
    replied
    You said....
    Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post
    You underpay tax and submit a self-assessment at the end of the year.
    I said....
    Originally posted by Lance View Post

    How do you propose this is done???
    Now bear in mind that no P45 equals tax overpayment not underpayment.... and you then realise why I asked....
    Are you sure that an employer will tax you based on information you provide rather than a P45? I reckon they'll put you on emergency tax code, and if no P45 arrives in a few months HR will sack you.

    Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post

    Your whole post sounds a bit bitter, if people manage to run 2-3 gigs at a time, good for them. They should all quit at the same time and create a spike in demand.
    Not bitter at all. I have 4 customers right now. But I am a contractor not an employee. This is a question about employees.

    Leave a comment:


  • GigiBronz
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post

    How do you propose this is done???
    Forging a P45?
    Fraudulently passing the same P45 to 2 employers.

    The idea of taking two permie jobs is stupid enough, don't make it worse.
    There is no legal requirement to submit a P45 to your new employer, that is what HR makes it look 'mandatory for you' so that they know what you were on previously and rest of the details.

    You can just put the nino, total tax paid in an e-mail and send it to HR, solved.

    Your whole post sounds a bit bitter, if people manage to run 2-3 gigs at a time, good for them. They should all quit at the same time and create a spike in demand.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by LondonManc View Post

    That said, after the call I had from a junior pimp yesterday, I think they've started scraping the paint off the bottom of the barrel.
    If they had to call you then I'd agree

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonManc
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post

    for a graduate that's good money.
    For a 21 year old with 2 years experience that's good money.
    I imagine the client knows what to expect for a rate like that. They're not that dumb.
    That's the general problem with contracting - do clients ever tell the agencies that they want to pay junior rates for a junior contract dev or do they genuinely get misled that someone who would normally be on 500/day accept that and not jump at the first sign of a proper rate offer?

    You rarely, if ever, see a Senior Java Developer or Junior Java Developer role in the contracting world, they're all just Java Developer. (just using Java as an example)

    That said, after the call I had from a junior pimp yesterday, I think they've started scraping the paint off the bottom of the barrel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lance
    replied
    Originally posted by SteelyDan View Post

    I'm struggling with how that could actually work?


    It was a flippant tongue in cheek comment. Not to be taken seriously.

    But it does have some merit....
    As paid holidays are accrued by days you work, the individual taking them is taking 20 days for two employers so that is 40.
    It has a cost of 40 days in total to two employers regardless of how they are used.
    The individual could take annual leave from one company to provide a proper days work to the other, rather than taking the same day from both employers.

    Leave a comment:


  • SteelyDan
    replied
    Originally posted by Lance View Post
    Anyway, if you double it all up that's 40 days paid holiday.
    I'm struggling with how that could actually work?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lance
    replied
    Originally posted by victorantos View Post
    I got a friend contractor for 10+ years. He was struggling to find an outside IR35 contract at a normal for him rate, £600-£650.

    His solution, that kind of works, got a couple of perms jobs at the same time, also is looking to take on another inside contract

    He is currently getting:

    - £50K perm
    - £65K perm
    - about to get a £400/day inside

    Total would be 50+65+(70?) = 185K/year or eq to £800/day outside IR35! plus you get the 20 days holiday

    Obviously this is remote only at the moment, and in a month or two it will require onsite 1-2 days a week.

    What do you think about this? Is it sustainable? Is it "legal"?
    it's stupid is what it is. Dishonest at best. Fraudulent at worst.
    Anyway, if you double it all up that's 40 days paid holiday. If he's already taking the piss why not double down?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lance
    replied
    Originally posted by GigiBronz View Post
    You underpay tax and submit a self-assessment at the end of the year. You can afford it with that income now probably get an accountant to do it for you. Previously it would have been 1 month of savings.
    How do you propose this is done???
    Forging a P45?
    Fraudulently passing the same P45 to 2 employers.

    The idea of taking two permie jobs is stupid enough, don't make it worse.

    Leave a comment:


  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    Probably not sustainable but knowing how companies treat people, good luck to him.

    Leave a comment:

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