Reply to: Question for QDOS re: IR35 contracts

[northernladuk]

Good stuff.

[Einstein Jnr]

So I reminded them about not starting till contract is in place - I just received the revised contract with all the QDOS recommended changes. Looks good but running it past QDOS one more time. It's been a couple of months so looking forward to being back on a project.

[LondonManc]

They are playing you because they know you will probably sign so need to take it to them. Tell them in no uncertain terms you'll not be attending site until the right contract turns up. If you can make them even think you might not turn up they will pull their finger out. They will be losing commission every day you are not on site so there is something in it to make them take notice.

Spot on. The market's as dry for agents as it is for contractors so they'll need your 'arris in a seat asap.

[psychocandy]

It's a brand new contract, you plum

oh yeh. "reviewed" "renewed"

[MrMarkyMark]

I'd say that too. If client is renewing you, then client has work for you and likes you.

Its possible client don't even know about this slight hitch, agency can't be bothered, and as NLUK is saying, just think you'll sign it.

Depends on how well you get on with the client, but it MAY be worth mentioning to them that yes, you'd love to extend, but the agency are being a bit awkward with contractual issues.

It's a brand new contract, you plum

[northernladuk]

I just got my contract reviewed and failed by qdos. I have asked the agency to revise but they seem to be dragging their heels. Contract is due to start Monday. Don't want to sign the failed one as I am listed as being party to the agreement as opposed to my co and agent/client. I also don't want to miss out on the gig - have been looking for a while and market is pretty dry.

They are playing you because they know you will probably sign so need to take it to them. Tell them in no uncertain terms you'll not be attending site until the right contract turns up. If you can make them even think you might not turn up they will pull their finger out. They will be losing commission every day you are not on site so there is something in it to make them take notice.

[Einstein Jnr]

I just got my contract reviewed and failed by qdos. I have asked the agency to revise but they seem to be dragging their heels. Contract is due to start Monday. Don't want to sign the failed one as I am listed as being party to the agreement as opposed to my co and agent/client. I also don't want to miss out on the gig - have been looking for a while and market is pretty dry.

[Criticular]

Working practices & uncooperative client-what else could be done to be safe frm IR35?

Asked the client, a larger commercial but bureaucratic company, to fill and sign working practices form before I start and they said they have a policy not to sign anything related to IR35. Is there anything else (apart from contract review) I can do to make sure I am safe from IR35? I saw some threads on this forum with some contractors sending letters saying "hey client, I am outside IR35" but how efficient are they?

[FiveTimes]

Good for you. I hope you managed to get something else and you didn't lose out. They aren't going to start taking it seriously until this happens more. Sadly I think we know what will have happened next in this case.

I lost out on the gig. But I would have taken it as it would mean home every night. However agency wouldn't budge.

A new agent has come back to me for the same gig and increased the rate. But I still have my doubts.

At the start of a gig you want that piece of paper saying PASS so you can start on a solidish footing

[northernladuk]

HMRC reading this thread be like...



Two years later and one partial victory they be like...

[ShandyDrinker]

Pass rates:

October 15: 43.10%
November 15: 42.16%
December 15: 49.04%
January 16: 46.60%
February: 52.12%
March: 57.21%
April: 53.87%

Very scary stats. Sounds like many people are willing to take a risk... and that's those that give enough of a stuff about IR35 to get their contract reviewed in the first place!

[jamesbrown]

Wowzers... Only 50% pass rates? That's very surprising. Is that for first review or after negotiations with agent and amendments?

Very interesting that is.

I'd bet it's the former...

[northernladuk]

Wowzers... Only 50% pass rates? That's very surprising. Is that for first review or after negotiations with agent and amendments?

Very interesting that is.

[Qdos Contractor]

Pass rates:

October 15: 43.10%
November 15: 42.16%
December 15: 49.04%
January 16: 46.60%
February: 52.12%
March: 57.21%
April: 53.87%

[ShandyDrinker]

You are spot on.

In my last contract I got to my second extension, and although the contract hadn't changed, qdos guidance had and it failed.

The agency would only change it with agreement from the client, so I sat down with client Procurement and had 3 variations added. Out of circa 190 contractors on site, to the best of my knowledge I'm the only one who had the contract changed to be a pass.

Had a similar experience but without the successful outcome as it resulted in negotiations breaking down due to the fact that because of the number of contractors who had already signed a similar contract I was viewed as being difficult. I would say the agency weren't overly helpful in negotiation with the client to change the contract either. For me the biggest irony here is that the contract was then reviewed by other parties which gave an IR35 pass by which point it was too late.

Fast forward to my post debacle contract whereby QDOS reviewed again and failed the next contract via a different agency. At this stage again I sourced a review from another well known IR35 contract review company who then passed the contract, similarly from my accountants who have an IR35 review service.

While not necessarily using this as a way to criticise QDOS as I think they provide an excellent service, I think it highlights more the problem with IR35 in general. If the industry professionals are unable to reach a consensus of opinion about what substitutes an IR35 pass or fail, what hope is there for the rest of us.

In anticipation of people saying it's about working practices too... yes, I have those reviewed and tend to ensure they put the contract outside of IR35. The reason I've started to take the approach I do is that to my mind if the contract is initially deemed to be an IR35 fail, you're on thin ice before you even consider working practices...