Question for QDOS re: IR35 contracts

[GB9]

Fair play to you then. Nice little win and exercise for the future.

Backs up your earlier point though. It's the 90% that will do us. Or 99.5% to be exact. Even when I mentioned it to a couple they weren't that concerned on the basis that the chances of being investigated were slim.

[FiveTimes]

I sent one off for review a couple of days ago and it returned with a failure on quite a number of clauses.

I got most of them amended, however the agency wasnt too keen on changing the MOO and Control (or even adding them) so I walked away from the gig.

[northernladuk]

I sent one off for review a couple of days ago and it returned with a failure on quite a number of clauses.

I got most of them amended, however the agency wasnt too keen on changing the MOO and Control (or even adding them) so I walked away from the gig.

Good for you. I hope you managed to get something else and you didn't lose out. They aren't going to start taking it seriously until this happens more. Sadly I think we know what will have happened next in this case.

[MrMarkyMark]

It could be useful to have a sticky naming the agencies concerned then we would know who to avoid.

[northernladuk]

It could be useful to have a sticky naming the agencies concerned then we would know who to avoid.

Dunno about that. I wouldn't be avoiding them based on someone's attempt to have a contract changed. If I'm on the bench you've got nothing to lose to try sticking into them while you are still looking.

Remember also the contract should reflect what the client wants. It could be on the odd occasion the contract will fail because the client imposes unfriendly terms.

[quackhandle]

I sent one off for review a couple of days ago and it returned with a failure on quite a number of clauses.

I got most of them amended, however the agency wasnt too keen on changing the MOO and Control (or even adding them) so I walked away from the gig.

Well done on sticking to your guns. Did the client say anything?

I bet they thought you were daft to do that, but they just don't get it. The amount of times I've tried to explain to pimps and client HR, that a number of years from now the tulip will hit the fan, client HR won't remember you and pimp won't GAS, so you come unstuck with a big HMRC bill.

"I'm running my own business, this is bloody important!" (what is shouted to one pimp down the phone, not professional but there you go)

qh

[ShandyDrinker]

You are spot on.

In my last contract I got to my second extension, and although the contract hadn't changed, qdos guidance had and it failed.

The agency would only change it with agreement from the client, so I sat down with client Procurement and had 3 variations added. Out of circa 190 contractors on site, to the best of my knowledge I'm the only one who had the contract changed to be a pass.

Had a similar experience but without the successful outcome as it resulted in negotiations breaking down due to the fact that because of the number of contractors who had already signed a similar contract I was viewed as being difficult. I would say the agency weren't overly helpful in negotiation with the client to change the contract either. For me the biggest irony here is that the contract was then reviewed by other parties which gave an IR35 pass by which point it was too late.

Fast forward to my post debacle contract whereby QDOS reviewed again and failed the next contract via a different agency. At this stage again I sourced a review from another well known IR35 contract review company who then passed the contract, similarly from my accountants who have an IR35 review service.

While not necessarily using this as a way to criticise QDOS as I think they provide an excellent service, I think it highlights more the problem with IR35 in general. If the industry professionals are unable to reach a consensus of opinion about what substitutes an IR35 pass or fail, what hope is there for the rest of us.

In anticipation of people saying it's about working practices too... yes, I have those reviewed and tend to ensure they put the contract outside of IR35. The reason I've started to take the approach I do is that to my mind if the contract is initially deemed to be an IR35 fail, you're on thin ice before you even consider working practices...

[Qdos Contractor]

Pass rates:

October 15: 43.10%
November 15: 42.16%
December 15: 49.04%
January 16: 46.60%
February: 52.12%
March: 57.21%
April: 53.87%

[northernladuk]

Wowzers... Only 50% pass rates? That's very surprising. Is that for first review or after negotiations with agent and amendments?

Very interesting that is.

[jamesbrown]

Wowzers... Only 50% pass rates? That's very surprising. Is that for first review or after negotiations with agent and amendments?

Very interesting that is.

I'd bet it's the former...