Reply to: Client requiring medical questionnaire and access to medical records

[TedStriker]

Thanks for all the replies. I have so far ignored the request for the form, contract has already been signed and I start work next week so by the time they realise they don't have it I'll already be there. At least then if they do insist on it for H&S reason or otherwise, I'll be able to provide it to them directly without it going via the agency.

As for IR35 compliance, the contract has definitely been written with that in mind. Specific clauses refer to '(me) or such other representatives as the supplier may from time to time deploy', 'Services will be provided independently and without requirement for supervision by the client', 'the supplier will determine the time and place at which it will carry out the services'. As a bit of a newby to 'outside IR35' working, hopefully this will be ok.

Thanks again,
Ted

[TheFaQQer]

Well, you didn't say that before but...

I don't think you can just steal another company's form for your own uses. It's their property.

If you can't make one up, given an eight page example, or using Google, then you probably can't get a contract, so it's nothing to worry about.

[NotAllThere]

No further discussion about the legality of taking a form emailed to you and filing it away. It's getting silly.

Ted - if you do this contract via your ltd co and then you go permie, be aware of a) IR35 anyway (regardless of medical form, if your working practices don't change it would, I would think, be hard to defend) and b) you can't claim travel and subsistence.

[d000hg]

No, you read the form and complete it. You file that away in your company records.

Show me the fraud.

Well, you didn't say that before but...

They emailed it to the OP, didn't they?

I don't think you can just steal another company's form for your own uses. It's their property.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

What about family aspirations to females of child bearing age?

Does that mean if my builder is a lazy fat slob I can't get rid of him?

Not sure I understand the first sentence. I am not sure that lazy is covered under the Equalities Act but fat may soon be Obese employees and discrimination: the verdict on obese employees hangs in the balance | Briefings | The Lawyer

[Acme Thunderer]

I've been in this position. Completing the information AND attending a medical were compulsory before being able to start. This applied to permanent staff of the client, permanent staff of sub-contractors to the client right down to 1 man limited companies. Alright the type of medical did depend on what you were going to do - office workers were as simple as Alcohol and Drug tests, people doing riskier things had additional tests.

As it applies to everyone and is part of H&S of the site it would be IR35 neutral

As has been alluded to, some industries are high risk and need to be certain that the person is fit & well and that they will not be a danger to themselves or others.

[TedStriker]

Everything about this sounds like a permie role. You can be on trial for a role in a permie position as well. I hope you are going through a brolly on this one as I strongly suspect you will be inside. From what they are saying I would guess there is no chance of RoS and you will be under D&C from day one as well as maybe MoO issues if they expect it to go perm.

Sounds like a trial period with a different billing system to me.

This will be the first contract I'll have done via my limited company rather than through an umbrella company - bad timing! I suppose it will become clearer when I see the contract which I should be getting that in the next day or so. The agency is Modis. To be fair to the client they didn't actually say during the interview that it's a trial for me, more that it's a trial position to see if they want to create a permanent role in the future. There was no mention of that role automatically being filled by me although that could be inferred I guess.

I think I'll ignore it for now, at least until the contract is signed and then wait and see what happens if/when they realise they haven't had the form back. By then it's very likely the work will have started. Only thing that could get in the way of that is if the agency chase me for it.

Ted

[ASB]

Ted,

The issue is whether there is a risk you may be covered by the legislation related to disability - I am. This gives a wider definition to the term worker. It may mean there is a requirement to change their practices even for a contract worker. They are simply trying to cover or understand their potential risk.

[Dactylion]

Does that mean if my builder is a lazy fat slob I can't get rid of him?

Suity is your builder?

@OP
They are treating this as a trial for a permie role - and are therefore going through all their permie take-on bumf now.
The pimp is just passing it on to you, almost certainly without even looking at it.

[northernladuk]

The guidance on the Equalities Act goes on for an epic number of pages so am not 100% but I believe you can ask questions for the sort of reason that you've given here but you can't refuse to offer an individual a job based purely on the answers that they give if the disability they have (or have had) meets the qualifying standards of the legislation

What about family aspirations to females of child bearing age?

Does that mean if my builder is a lazy fat slob I can't get rid of him?

[northernladuk]

Not sure - there is legal evidence to suggest otherwise Improved rights for agency workers after discrimination case win | Equality and Human Rights Commission

All very nice if you are an agency worker.......

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

That may be so but surely there is some responsibility for a company to carry out some screening to make sure they are not putting people at risk and can get sued for it further down the line? Surely they have a duty of care to some level, particularly when dealing with very risky sites. For example, they wouldn't put someone with a pacemaker in a power station with strong electromagnetic fields etc...

The type of research could be key....

The guidance on the Equalities Act goes on for an epic number of pages so am not 100% but I believe you can ask questions for the sort of reason that you've given here but you can't refuse to offer an individual a job based purely on the answers that they give if the disability they have (or have had) meets the qualifying standards of the legislation

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Technically since 2012(I think) it is illegal to discrimate against employees on health grounds - or at least mental health.

But as a contractor they can do whatever they want.

Not sure - there is legal evidence to suggest otherwise Improved rights for agency workers after discrimination case win | Equality and Human Rights Commission

[northernladuk]

It sounds to me, on the face of it, that this could be considered discriminatory - I am pretty sure that a company cannot consider the medical history of an individual when making a job offer Disability Discrimination

That may be so but surely there is some responsibility for a company to carry out some screening to make sure they are not putting people at risk and can get sued for it further down the line? Surely they have a duty of care to some level, particularly when dealing with very risky sites. For example, they wouldn't put someone with a pacemaker in a power station with strong electromagnetic fields etc...

The type of research could be key....

[northernladuk]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the replies, a bit more info...

The site is a research facility and as such will not all be standard office environments. The contract is initially for 6 months but as a 'trial' to see if a permanent position is viable. It seems like the company is already treating me as an employee as they have asked for details such as NI number as well.

Everything about this sounds like a permie role. You can be on trial for a role in a permie position as well. I hope you are going through a brolly on this one as I strongly suspect you will be inside. From what they are saying I would guess there is no chance of RoS and you will be under D&C from day one as well as maybe MoO issues if they expect it to go perm.

Sounds like a trial period with a different billing system to me.