Reply to: Halloween it is then.

[cojak]

At least it means that minestrone can get his party poppers out of storage and have that party of his again, just in fancy dress next time.

Will he go as Theresa May though?

[BrilloPad]

OK, since you seem to need to simplify things, lets walk through the process so far.

We decided that we wanted to leave the EU Club. We told the EU this by invoking Article 50. The EU agreed with Mrs. May that we would leave the club on an agreed set of terms intended to make it as easy as possible for all concerned. This was referred to as the Withdrawl Agreement, or "The Deal". If that didn't work we would leave with no agreement in place, or "No Deal".

Some MP's in the UK think "The Deal" is a good idea. Most don't.
Some MP's in the UK think we should just leave with "No Deal". Most don't.
Some MP's in the UK think we shouldn't leave at all. Most don't.

MP's in the UK have so far failed to agree just how we will leave The Club, with or without a deal.

Now we have invoked Article 50 we can walk out of the EU at any point with "No Deal", The EU cannot stop that. The only thing stopping that is the MP's in the UK who don't want it. Which is most of them.

We could also decide to remain in the club. We can revoke Article 50 and withdraw the decision to leave. The EU cannot stop that either. The only thing stopping that is the MP's in the UK who don't want it. Which is most of them.

These are all facts. And my conclusion is we are better off with Brussels than Westminster.

[DaveB]

That is the point. Thanks to Yvette Fieldings bill we the UK cannot legally leave either no deal. We have to ask the EU for an extension. Only if the EU refuse to grant us an extension can we leave via no deal.

The EU holds all the cards.

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Yvette Fielding and all the other MP's who voted in favour of her motion.

That's not the EU's fault though, is it. That's down to our own MP's. The EU don't want "No Deal" either so they will act in their own best interests, it's unreasonable to expect them to do otherwise.

Our Parliament has the power to make the decisions needed to resolve the entire issue today. The fact that they are incapable of doing so is nobody else's fault but our own.

We can leave any time we want to, the only thing stopping us is our own Parliament.

If the EU does hold all the cards (hint: they don't), it's because we gave them to them.

[Whorty]

OK, since you seem to need to simplify things, lets walk through the process so far.

We decided that we wanted to leave the EU Club. We told the EU this by invoking Article 50. The EU agreed with Mrs. May that we would leave the club on an agreed set of terms intended to make it as easy as possible for all concerned. This was referred to as the Withdrawl Agreement, or "The Deal". If that didn't work we would leave with no agreement in place, or "No Deal".

Some MP's in the UK think "The Deal" is a good idea. Most don't.
Some MP's in the UK think we should just leave with "No Deal". Most don't.
Some MP's in the UK think we shouldn't leave at all. Most don't.

MP's in the UK have so far failed to agree just how we will leave The Club, with or without a deal.

Now we have invoked Article 50 we can walk out of the EU at any point with "No Deal", The EU cannot stop that. The only thing stopping that is the MP's in the UK who don't want it. Which is most of them.

We could also decide to remain in the club. We can revoke Article 50 and withdraw the decision to leave. The EU cannot stop that either. The only thing stopping that is the MP's in the UK who don't want it. Which is most of them.

Seems pretty straightforward. If only your average brexiter could understand this rather than keep blaming the EU, or remainers, or Santa Claus, for the mess they've voted for

[Yorkie62]

OK, since you seem to need to simplify things, lets walk through the process so far.

We decided that we wanted to leave the EU Club. We told the EU this by invoking Article 50. The EU agreed with Mrs. May that we would leave the club on an agreed set of terms intended to make it as easy as possible for all concerned. This was referred to as the Withdrawl Agreement, or "The Deal". If that didn't work we would leave with no agreement in place, or "No Deal".

Some MP's in the UK think "The Deal" is a good idea. Most don't.
Some MP's in the UK think we should just leave with "No Deal". Most don't.
Some MP's in the UK think we shouldn't leave at all. Most don't.

MP's in the UK have so far failed to agree just how we will leave The Club, with or without a deal.

Now we have invoked Article 50 we can walk out of the EU at any point with "No Deal", The EU cannot stop that. The only thing stopping that is the MP's in the UK who don't want it. Which is most of them.

That is the point. Thanks to Yvette Fieldings bill we the UK cannot legally leave either no deal. We have to ask the EU for an extension. Only if the EU refuse to grant us an extension can we leave via no deal.

The EU holds all the cards.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Contractor UK Forum mobile app

[DaveB]

Let me explain it to you.

Terresa May, she lives in a big house in a place called London with a black door and the number 10 on it. Now some 'grown ups' who regularly meet at a drinking club, in another big house in London, passed a law that means that Terresa has to go to another big building in another country and see another group of adults to ask if our country can remain in a club called the EU because the adults in the big house in London can't decide if they want to leave the EU club or not. It is then upto the grown ups in the EU club to decide if we can stay in the club or leave (with no deal).

OK, since you seem to need to simplify things, lets walk through the process so far.

We decided that we wanted to leave the EU Club. We told the EU this by invoking Article 50. The EU agreed with Mrs. May that we would leave the club on an agreed set of terms intended to make it as easy as possible for all concerned. This was referred to as the Withdrawl Agreement, or "The Deal". If that didn't work we would leave with no agreement in place, or "No Deal".

Some MP's in the UK think "The Deal" is a good idea. Most don't.
Some MP's in the UK think we should just leave with "No Deal". Most don't.
Some MP's in the UK think we shouldn't leave at all. Most don't.

MP's in the UK have so far failed to agree just how we will leave The Club, with or without a deal.

Now we have invoked Article 50 we can walk out of the EU at any point with "No Deal", The EU cannot stop that. The only thing stopping that is the MP's in the UK who don't want it. Which is most of them.

We could also decide to remain in the club. We can revoke Article 50 and withdraw the decision to leave. The EU cannot stop that either. The only thing stopping that is the MP's in the UK who don't want it. Which is most of them.

[meridian]

Let me explain it to you.

Terresa May, she lives in a big house in a place called London with a black door and the number 10 on it. Now some 'grown ups' who regularly meet at a drinking club, in another big house in London, passed a law that means that Terresa has to go to another big building in another country and see another group of adults to ask if our country can remain in a club called the EU because the adults in the big house in London can't decide if they want to leave the EU club or not. It is then upto the grown ups in the EU club to decide if we can stay in the club or leave (with no deal).

How does that sovereignty feel to you, now that you know that 9 countries smaller than Scotland have a veto over whether or not an extension is granted?

Even if we leave, how will it feel knowing that those same 9 countries smaller than Scotland will also have a veto over any future trade deal?

This is the future of the UK’s relationship with the EU. Not as an equal partner (ludicrous, considering the size difference) but as a third country. It could have been so different if the U.K. had chosen a consensus approach to Brexit and moved towards an EEA / EFTA style arrangement, but the arch Brexiters saw to it that this was not possible.

Even as a Brexit supporter, do you not feel just a little bit annoyed that your version of Brexit and the standing of your country on the global stage has been hijacked by Brexit extremists?

[darmstadt]

Let me explain it to you.

Terresa May, she lives in a big house in a place called London with a black door and the number 10 on it. Now some 'grown ups' who regularly meet at a drinking club, in another big house in London, passed a law that means that Terresa has to go to another big building in another country and see another group of adults to ask if our country can remain in a club called the EU because the adults in the big house in London can't decide if they want to leave the EU club or not. It is then upto the grown ups in the EU club to decide if we can stay in the club or leave (with no deal).

Are you adult enough to see where you've gone wrong?

[Yorkie62]

So can you explain why only the EU can grant us a No Deal exit when the only thing stopping it is our own MP's?

Let me explain it to you.

Terresa May, she lives in a big house in a place called London with a black door and the number 10 on it. Now some 'grown ups' who regularly meet at a drinking club, in another big house in London, passed a law that means that Terresa has to go to another big building in another country and see another group of adults to ask if our country can remain in a club called the EU because the adults in the big house in London can't decide if they want to leave the EU club or not. It is then upto the grown ups in the EU club to decide if we can stay in the club or leave (with no deal).

[DaveB]

Is that really the most constructive thing you have to offer to the debate. Pathetic, just like our current crop of MPs.

So can you explain why only the EU can grant us a No Deal exit when the only thing stopping it is our own MP's?

[Yorkie62]

Nurse! Nurse! He's out of bed again!

Is that really the most constructive thing you have to offer to the debate. Pathetic, just like our current crop of MPs.

[DaveB]

Thanks to Yvette Fielding and those MPs that voted with her it is almost impossible for the UK to leave with no deal. Only the EU can grant us that now. The problem parliament has is that everyone wants their version of Brexit and no one is willing to compromise. You are see that now from the Labour Tory Brexit talks. labour are complaining that May will not move from the WA and Labour will not move from their Customs Union and free Movement stance. It's madness. We will never leave the EU, the MPs in parliament will see to that. The referendum result will never be respected. It is impossible to leave the EU. The EU holds all the cards. We should hang the white flag from the cliffs of Dover and ditch the pound and enter the Schengen now! Its the only deal that will pass through parliament.

Nurse! Nurse! He's out of bed again!

[Yorkie62]

Your elected representative has had their vote in Parliament. Multiple times.

It’s not difficult at all to leave with no deal. The issue is whether or not the country both understands and is prepared for the consequences, and whether or not our elected representatives are prepared for that responsibility. Opinion in Parliament is split, but on balance they are not prepared to exit with No Deal.

(Note: one of the consequences is that as soon as the U.K. requests to open trade talks with the EU, the first request from the EU will be for the three main strands of the WA to be settled. Therefore, it’s pretty pointless to leave with No Deal)

Thanks to Yvette Fielding and those MPs that voted with her it is almost impossible for the UK to leave with no deal. Only the EU can grant us that now. The problem parliament has is that everyone wants their version of Brexit and no one is willing to compromise. You are see that now from the Labour Tory Brexit talks. labour are complaining that May will not move from the WA and Labour will not move from their Customs Union and free Movement stance. It's madness. We will never leave the EU, the MPs in parliament will see to that. The referendum result will never be respected. It is impossible to leave the EU. The EU holds all the cards. We should hang the white flag from the cliffs of Dover and ditch the pound and enter the Schengen now! Its the only deal that will pass through parliament.

[meridian]

The ERG are idiots. Corbyn just wants his hands on power.

The vote I want is in parliament. How difficult is it to leave with no deal?

I always thought the only reason to stay in the EU was the difficulty of leaving.

Westminster is such a disaster now. I would take Brussels over them every time after what has happened the last 2 years.

Your elected representative has had their vote in Parliament. Multiple times.

It’s not difficult at all to leave with no deal. The issue is whether or not the country both understands and is prepared for the consequences, and whether or not our elected representatives are prepared for that responsibility. Opinion in Parliament is split, but on balance they are not prepared to exit with No Deal.

(Note: one of the consequences is that as soon as the U.K. requests to open trade talks with the EU, the first request from the EU will be for the three main strands of the WA to be settled. Therefore, it’s pretty pointless to leave with No Deal)

[BrilloPad]

If that were true we wouldn’t be having these arguments in Parliament. Clearly some of our MPs (such as the ERG) feel that there is a wrong type of exit, otherwise they would have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement.



We all got the first part (well, most of us - Brits more than 15 years out didn’t because they’re no longer British enough, EU citizens living in the UK more than 15 years didn’t because they’re still not British enough...). They’re doing the second part. The issue appears to be the discrepancy between the public’s perception of how long it should take, and how long it will actually take.

Perhaps if the public hasn’t been lied to by the arch Brexiters telling them how easy it was all going to be, we would have more reasonable expectations of how long the process should take.

The ERG are idiots. Corbyn just wants his hands on power.

The vote I want is in parliament. How difficult is it to leave with no deal?

I always thought the only reason to stay in the EU was the difficulty of leaving.

Westminster is such a disaster now. I would take Brussels over them every time after what has happened the last 2 years.