Reply to: Backstops and hard borders

[meridian]

Brexit is.in some ways the politics of envy by those who lack the imagination or means to consider that they might ever want to enjoy the FoM rights. They even want to stop their children and grandchildren. Sad really.

I don't even think he gets the irony of saying that I should move to another country, even after he has voted to take Freedom of Movement away.

[Old Greg]

The basis of your argument (which, to be honest, seems to be the basis of a lot of your arguments) is that you don't understand it therefore it is not required. I've simply given you a different point of view on whether FoM is a benefit.

FYI, even after Brexit I will still have 27 EU countries, plus 3 EEA, plus Switzerland, plus the UK, that I can live, work, and retire in. My Freedom of Movement is intact. It's yours and your family's that has been removed.

Brexit is.in some ways the politics of envy by those who lack the imagination or means to consider that they might ever want to enjoy the FoM rights. They even want to stop their children and grandchildren. Sad really.

[meridian]

And so everyone should change nothing because of you and a tiny number of other people who want to work in Europe as well as the UK?

So here is the best option for you - go live in the EU - you will still have 27 countries to work in and forget about us here in the tulipty UK.

Please.

The basis of your argument (which, to be honest, seems to be the basis of a lot of your arguments) is that you don't understand it therefore it is not required. I've simply given you a different point of view on whether FoM is a benefit.

FYI, even after Brexit I will still have 27 EU countries, plus 3 EEA, plus Switzerland, plus the UK, that I can live, work, and retire in. My Freedom of Movement is intact. It's yours and your family's that has been removed.

[Old Greg]

And so everyone should change nothing because of you and a tiny number of other people who want to work in Europe as well as the UK?

So here is the best option for you - go live in the EU - you will still have 27 countries to work in and forget about us here in the tulipty UK.

Please.

Try to understand that this is multifaceted. There are a lot of becauses. There are also other reasons, including around seamless cross border trade.

[original PM]

That's because you do not see the benefits of Freedom of Movement. I enjoy it - I can work anywhere in Europe, live there, retire there, all as a right and not a privilege that I need to apply for. I see it as a benefit.

And so everyone should change nothing because of you and a tiny number of other people who want to work in Europe as well as the UK?

So here is the best option for you - go live in the EU - you will still have 27 countries to work in and forget about us here in the tulipty UK.

Please.

[Mordac]

We'll pay them a decent sized divorce bill ... they'll be fine

And swap our unicorns for their leprechauns...

[BlasterBates]

It's tulip?

The boring night life.

[Old Greg]

I worked in Luxembourg for a while, no borders a population of a few hundred thousand, and there were hardly any illegal immigrants, the trains, buses not full, hospitals offering instant service, and no jobs stolen in spite of the fact that there were 500 million EU scroungers on their doorstep.

Now why does Luxembourg not have a problem even though I never saw one border guard when I was there ?

The answer is of course obvious

It's tulip?

[BlasterBates]

Ok well i'll drop you in a field and say walk 20 miles that way to freedom

or i'll drop you on a beach and say swim 20 miles that way to freedom

there is a good chance you will do one and not the other.

However that was not the point I was making - the point is the EU allows freedom of movement of people because it is absolutely impossible to stop it in mainland Europe so they wrote it into the laws (whatever) where as it's is clearly not as easy to get to the UK from France as it is to get to Germany from France.

But y'know....

I worked in Luxembourg for a while, no borders a population of a few hundred thousand, and there were hardly any illegal immigrants, the trains, buses not full, hospitals offering instant service, and no jobs stolen in spite of the fact that there were 500 million EU scroungers on their doorstep.

Now why does Luxembourg not have a problem even though I never saw one border guard when I was there ?

The answer is of course obvious

[meridian]

On that particular point I was making was that the EU allows freedom of movement not because it wants it but because it cannot stop it.

You're confusing Freedom of Movement (a right that all Europeans have, currently including Brits) with physical ease of movement around the continent of Europe.
British and Irish have Freedom of Movement but have a sea border between us and the continent.
Other EU countries that are not currently part of Schengen have border posts. For example, I travelled by car from Croatia to Slovenia last year and was required to pass through a border checkpoint.

In addition it is clear they do not want it because they said if we want access to the customs union and trade deals we must also allow free movement - which confused me as initially that would seem like the EU are offering us more - oh you can not just have access to the customs union and trade deals but also that great benefit of freedom of movement.

Except it's not a benefit is it? or they would not be trying to force it on us.

But I guess that's just my reasoning

That's because you do not see the benefits of Freedom of Movement. I enjoy it - I can work anywhere in Europe, live there, retire there, all as a right and not a privilege that I need to apply for. I see it as a benefit.

[Old Greg]

Looks like the Leavers have given up on their fairy tales about open borders for goods on the island of Ireland.

[original PM]

But what is your point? Nobody has said that FoM or borders for people (in particular the subject of the thread, the UK border in Ireland) is a problem.

On that particular point I was making was that the EU allows freedom of movement not because it wants it but because it cannot stop it.

In addition it is clear they do not want it because they said if we want access to the customs union and trade deals we must also allow free movement - which confused me as initially that would seem like the EU are offering us more - oh you can not just have access to the customs union and trade deals but also that great benefit of freedom of movement.

Except it's not a benefit is it? or they would not be trying to force it on us.

But I guess that's just my reasoning

[meridian]

Ok well i'll drop you in a field and say walk 20 miles that way to freedom

or i'll drop you on a beach and say swim 20 miles that way to freedom

there is a good chance you will do one and not the other.

However that was not the point I was making - the point is the EU allows freedom of movement of people because it is absolutely impossible to stop it in mainland Europe so they wrote it into the laws (whatever) where as it's is clearly not as easy to get to the UK from France as it is to get to Germany from France.

But y'know....

But what is your point? Nobody has said that FoM or borders for people (in particular the subject of the thread, the UK border in Ireland) is a problem.

[Whorty]

Ireland doesn't want unification, and even if it did, they can't afford it.

We'll pay them a decent sized divorce bill ... they'll be fine

[Whorty]

How is this at all relevant? Which one are you driving a truck through?

He's a brexiter ... he's driving a truck right through the UK economy