UK politicians vs unelected bureaucrats

[darmstadt]

stop talking sense, you are in the wrong forum for that.

Yes, you need to go over to the Daily Mail comments section for that

[vetran]

Because making the deal look like it's going to favour the EU will make whatever deal we do eventually get to look good in comparison. And on the EU side they are trying to impress 27 member states with their tough negotiating skills to keep them onside. Bread and circuses...

Meanwhile, in the real world, a pragmatic and mutually beneficial deal is the most likely outcome. A bit like the ones they've already achieved over some key supposedly intractable issues like mutual citizen protections and the Irish border.

stop talking sense, you are in the wrong forum for that.

[malvolio]

Indeed. I have wondered why the government does not feed more information to the papers.

Even the express seems to post pro-EU stories.

Because making the deal look like it's going to favour the EU will make whatever deal we do eventually get to look good in comparison. And on the EU side they are trying to impress 27 member states with their tough negotiating skills to keep them onside. Bread and circuses...

Meanwhile, in the real world, a pragmatic and mutually beneficial deal is the most likely outcome. A bit like the ones they've already achieved over some key supposedly intractable issues like mutual citizen protections and the Irish border.

[BrilloPad]

Most of what is in the papers is sourced from the EU side.

Indeed. I have wondered why the government does not feed more information to the papers.

Even the express seems to post pro-EU stories.

[malvolio]

Plenty of messenger-shooting going on, but nothing of substance about the actual message.

If even half of what Adonis says about our civil service is true, the likelihood of a) a good deal b) on time to avoid WTO, is looking more and more remote.

Perhaps your ire would be better directed towards Davis, Fox, Johnson, etc than Adonis.

So attack the people who do know what's happening as opposed to a peripheral Quango apparatchik with a dodgy history in a failed government. Yeah, good plan.

Most of what is in the papers is sourced from the EU side. Clearly it is not going to be supportive of a good deal for the UK.

[jamesbrown]

Are hardcore leavers any better?

Indeed not. They are one and the same, as I’ve said many times.

[BrilloPad]

I think it’s a reasonable observation that hardcore Remainers have no capacity for critical self-reflection. They are politically and emotionally retarded. Like National Front thickos, one might say.

Are hardcore leavers any better?

[jamesbrown]

Plenty of messenger-shooting going on, but nothing of substance about the actual message.

If even half of what Adonis says about our civil service is true, the likelihood of a) a good deal b) on time to avoid WTO, is looking more and more remote.

Perhaps your ire would be better directed towards Davis, Fox, Johnson, etc than Adonis.

I think it’s a reasonable observation that hardcore Remainers have no capacity for critical self-reflection. They are politically and emotionally retarded. Like National Front thickos, one might say.

[BrilloPad]

So no civil servants agree with government policy.

Have we not moved on from Yes minister?

[meridian]

Plenty of messenger-shooting going on, but nothing of substance about the actual message.

If even half of what Adonis says about our civil service is true, the likelihood of a) a good deal b) on time to avoid WTO, is looking more and more remote.

Perhaps your ire would be better directed towards Davis, Fox, Johnson, etc than Adonis.

[malvolio]

Adonis was history anyway. Another of Blair's cronies appointed way above his pay grade. He jumped before being ignominiously pushed...

[jamesbrown]

Adonis is however right in today's Sunday Times. Grayling needs to go for allowing Virgin Trains East Coast to escape the bill they committed to paying...

Ironically, that call might be the only thing that saves him from the imminent Cabinet reshuffle.

As an aside, I particularly enjoyed the way Adonis decided to resign, and to tell us about it. In the Austrian Alps. Skiing. Brilliant.

[eek]

Sorry but the unelected (and likely unelectable) Adonis being quoted in the Grauniad is not a reliable source of information...

However I do agree that if the final deal is as good as the tories are optimistically suggesting (of which I am highly sceptical) then were a second referendum to be held it would be a walkover. Although since Parliament has put its collective foot down and it won't be held anyway why is it even being given consideration

Adonis is however right in today's Sunday Times. Grayling needs to go for allowing Virgin Trains East Coast to escape the bill they committed to paying...

[malvolio]

Sorry but the unelected (and likely unelectable) Adonis being quoted in the Grauniad is not a reliable source of information...

However I do agree that if the final deal is as good as the tories are optimistically suggesting (of which I am highly sceptical) then were a second referendum to be held it would be a walkover. Although since Parliament has put its collective foot down and it won't be held anyway why is it even being given consideration

[meridian]

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ale-collapsed?



If Brexit is the best thing for the country, then a second referendum on the final leave terms (or not to leave) should be a doddle. Every voter in the country should be standing behind any call for a final say, after all, didn’t we take back control?