Reply to: Contract Terminated

[CloudWalker]

I just had the boss pull the old "can I have a word" line.
In short 3 months in to a 6 month gig and they have ran out of money.
They still want me, but I'll have to go perm and pay lower wage.
Guess its time to move on...

[psychocandy]

I'm not sure a doctor can "sign you off work" in the sense "you mustn't go to work" (unless perhaps you have a serious infectious disease). All he does is give you a letter saying in his professional opinion you are ill enough to take time off sick, if you choose to, to placate your employer.

Yes they can. Although obviously they usually wont do so without your agreement in the first place.

You're on dodgy ground, even as a permie, if you go to work when doc has signed you off. HR departments will tell permies not to come in due to insurance issues etc. I expect same for contractors.

Of course, if doc gives you note for 4 weeks and then a week later you go back and he agrees to cancel it and declare you fit then thats fine.

[psychocandy]

It depends.

If you are "signed off" which if you are a contractor you don't need to be, the doctor will give you the restrictions on work and lifestyle if you bother to tell/describe to him/her what you do and mention you can work from home.

So you can be told to stay away from client site and public places but be allowed to WFH.

Oh and they record what they advise in your medical notes.

Agreed - something I had years ago when I was ill. Doc advised it was ok for me to work x days per week and employer had to go with this.

But like you said, docs will usually go with what you want unless its detrimental. Mind you wouldnt stroll into client and say, doc has signed me off and I can only work from home for the next month. Might not go down too well at some clients.

[d000hg]

I'm not sure a doctor can "sign you off work" in the sense "you mustn't go to work" (unless perhaps you have a serious infectious disease). All he does is give you a letter saying in his professional opinion you are ill enough to take time off sick, if you choose to, to placate your employer.

[SueEllen]

Does it though? Surely if a doctor signs you off from work (whether you like it or not) it means any work - would be interested to see how insurers would see this if you ever claimed on liability insurance whilst signed off by a doctor?

It depends.

If you are "signed off" which if you are a contractor you don't need to be, the doctor will give you the restrictions on work and lifestyle if you bother to tell/describe to him/her what you do and mention you can work from home.

So you can be told to stay away from client site and public places but be allowed to WFH.

Oh and they record what they advise in your medical notes.

[ASB]

Irrespective of OP's actual status there is potential protection under AWR. It may be the case that the OP is indeed a worker under this definition and then the protection such as it is afforded by the regulations would apply.

However, in terms of an employee dismissal on health grounds is fine. No problem. But the question is whether the employee is covered by the disability act (I am). In this case the employer must make reasonable endeavours to adjust working practices etc. Of course what is reasonable is down to a tribunal. [fwiw, stuff all, mine means I can WFH. Use taxis rather than drive, stay in nearest hotel rather than bandedone in expenses policy etc, flexible hours and a host of other stuff].

Question of course, even if covered, is "does any of that actually matter". The answer to that is likely - but not certainly - to be no. Would need to see the contract, but I am reasonably sure that the termination clause has probably got a "because we feel like it" caveat.

It's harsh, but its the way it is. Look at it from the engagers point of view. What impact does the sickness haveon them? If they don't HAVE to accept it they may well want to find a way round it that inconveniences them less.

[psychocandy]

Thanks for your response 'cheese slice'...
Good question.. I'll have to check the actual wording, but i believe it states 1weeks notice by either party, but the point is - as i mentioned to the doc "l imagine i would be sacked for taking time off" he said "that would be unlikely, as you are under medical supervision" (i.e. under doctors line/medication).

But you aint been sacked your not an employee. Fair enough if you're an employee they cant sack you for being ill but you aint an employee.

[psychocandy]

Unless your condition means you are unconscious being signed off doesn't mean you can't work from home.

Does it though? Surely if a doctor signs you off from work (whether you like it or not) it means any work - would be interested to see how insurers would see this if you ever claimed on liability insurance whilst signed off by a doctor?

Of course, being signed off is irrelevant to a contractor. You don't need a sick note like a permie would. In fact, as above, I'd say it'd be a hinderance.

Personally, if I was OP I'd have avoided the sick note at all costs. Then just phoned client manager, stayed well away from HR, and just told you'd be off for a few days and then you'd be in touch. Going forward then see if you could wfh if needs be.

OP - seen a lot of contracts like this where they have the right to get rid of if you're sick for a certain amount of time but never seen it forced like this (but then I've never had sick like this). Always stuck me as one of those clauses that is there if they need to use it but wont normally.

After 2 years, they must have liked you a bit to be there that long which is why its strange. Wondering whether going to HR and telling them you're off for 2 weeks min got them spooked a bit? Might have been a HR thing then with no input from the people on the ground? So as above I think you played it badly.

Or for different reasons they might have been waiting for an excuse to get rid anyway?

I just cant see how a client you'd been at for a few years would have an issue if you'd told them you were ill for a few days and then spoke to them to sort things out.

[Dallas]

Hmmm methinks you need to do some reading regarding your status and future relationship with any hr dept and using language like that with seasoned posters will always get you a 'top spot',good luck with that.

[tractor]

..

Thanks for your response 'cheese slice'...
Good question.. I'll have to check the actual wording, but i believe it states 1weeks notice by either party, but the point is - as i mentioned to the doc "l imagine i would be sacked for taking time off" he said "that would be unlikely, as you are under medical supervision" (i.e. under doctors line/medication).

So you got legal advice from a doctor?

You'll be asking HMRC for an amputation next.....oh!.....wait..... you are already in the queue it seems

[northernladuk]

That's the only reason I could see for this thread.

Why else does he think like a permie?

LOL got me with that one...

Maybe it was a round the houses way of asking HMRC to come a knocking...

[cojak]

That's the only reason I could see for this thread.

Why else does he think like a permie?

[Brigodoon]

And straight from the horses mouth



http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore...s-guidance.pdf

Thanks,
Well that's that then... Thanks everyone for your responses, to be honest after 2➕years in the company, it's a relief to be released... It saved me from having to make the decision.
Many thanks again.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Thanks for your response 'cheese slice'...
Good question.. I'll have to check the actual wording, but i believe it states 1weeks notice by either party, but the point is - as i mentioned to the doc "l imagine i would be sacked for taking time off" he said "that would be unlikely, as you are under medical supervision" (i.e. under doctors line/medication).

Well, you haven't been sacked unless you sacked yourself. Your client has terminated its contract with YourCo as it was unable to fulfil it's contractual obligations. I assume you couldn't send a substitute?

It sucks, sorry you lost your gig, but tulip happens. It's part of running your own business and is part of the reason we get paid better than permies.

[northernladuk]

I'll bet he's on a FTC.

Oh Dear....

But he says clearly he is contracted as a limited company in his post?!?