Reply to: IR35 Agency References

[Gordon Ice]

I'm a contractor operating a limited company. Always taken a cautious approach to IR35 - contract reviews etc. so am as confident as I can be that all my contracts are outwith IR35.

I've been asked by my current recruitment agency to provide references for the last 12 months.

The thing that bothers me is that the form I've been asked to fill out refers to "employment references", with fields like "Date of employment", "line manager" etc.

Could this be seen as (incorrect) evidence that I've been in an employment relationship and therefore inside IR35 if I fill it out? Or am I just being really really pedantic??

Appreciate any input that anyone can give.

Not paranoid but definitely being careful; but then who knows when it might come back to haunt you.

• Employer is your Ltd
• Previous Pimps can confirm that your gigs actually existed

Just remember that when a Pimp says "references" they actually mean "leads". Never ever give them names, roles, organisation details and actually you'd better consider whether the role is actually real. Pimps who say they cannot forward your CV to the Client without references are liars and IMHO these are fake roles.

[GillsMan]

They are just fishing for leads, ignore them. If they won't leave you alone then give them the names of the agencies you have previously worked for.

Yup, this happened to me. I ignored the email and follow-ups. Waste of my time.

[Contreras]

I'm a contractor operating a limited company. Always taken a cautious approach to IR35 - contract reviews etc. so am as confident as I can be that all my contracts are outwith IR35.

I've been asked by my current recruitment agency to provide references for the last 12 months.

The thing that bothers me is that the form I've been asked to fill out refers to "employment references", with fields like "Date of employment", "line manager" etc.

Could this be seen as (incorrect) evidence that I've been in an employment relationship and therefore inside IR35 if I fill it out? Or am I just being really really pedantic??

Appreciate any input that anyone can give.

More likely fishing for leads, IMHO. Ignore and it will go away, IMHO.

No concerns over IR35 (unless if perhaps it's your attitude to comply with any directions thrown your way).

Company name = YourCo
Date of employment = date you started
Line manager = N/A

^^ or do this.

[Wanderer]

I've been asked by my current recruitment agency to provide references for the last 12 months.

They are just fishing for leads, ignore them. If they won't leave you alone then give them the names of the agencies you have previously worked for.

[malvolio]

Of course, Due diligence is a necessary process if you're looking to take over another company either by acquisition or as part of an outsourcing deal. Or if the certification auditors are coming in to make sure you're doing things properly.

Might explain why it took them some months since contract start to get their books in order...

[kingcook]

The recruitment agent never got references when I started this contract, but now says he needs them on file for due diligence or something like that - so I haven't gone from permie to contract if that's what you're asking?

No, no, not at all.

This asking for refs after X months happened to me too.

The agent said he needed them for some duedil thing, just like in your case.

I told them that I don't give out details of previous clients - it's my company's confidential imformation. I don't want a recruitment agent (or any of my competitors) knowing which of my clients are looking for services that I offer.

Go tell him that you're looking to do some market research on the type of companies that are looking for your skills, and would he mind give you a list of his contacts so you can get in-touch with them - see what he says!

[CDJ]

For due diligence, apparently...although asking this late might seem a contradiction in terms

Actually.. this is likely more an exercise at getting leads than due diligence

Most Agents use references as a way to generate openings to obtain contacts.. same when you are cold called by an Agent and they friendly ask you what you're working on, which area and "isn't that so and so's team??", which you then politely correct..

If you're at all uncomfortable with filling out the Agency form, create your own with more appropriate headings.. Also be careful as your client and previous clients might not be too happy with you sharing internal contact details..

[SteelyDan]

The OP is already in contract with the agency, so why do they need the information now?

For due diligence, apparently...although asking this late might seem a contradiction in terms

[DirtyDog]

In order to get anywhere with the agency reference request, I don't think you'll get away with the above.
They will want to know for which organisation you provided services, and the dates to/from, plus a contact name (or previous agency contact) in order to verify what you have already told the agency, or what they have seen on your CV.

The OP is already in contract with the agency, so why do they need the information now?

I'm guessing your CV listed client organisation and NOT 'your-co'?

It's a mixture - there are some clients where there is an NDA in place, and there are some government clients who I'm not allowed to discuss anyway.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

What's really important with IR35 is - supervision, direction and control, mutuality of obligation and a right of substitution - the other bits and pieces will help slightly or hinder slightly but are unlikely to make a fundamental difference to your status

[superdeano]

Thanks for the responses.

I consider myself quite well informed about IR35 (compared to some of my peers) but am never sure what's really important when it comes to details like these.

In the end, I actually just changed their template form to read "Date of contract" and "Contact Name" instead of "Date of Employment", "Line Manager" etc. Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you...

This implies that you already have a contract with them and have been working on client side, yes? no?

The recruitment agent never got references when I started this contract, but now says he needs them on file for due diligence or something like that - so I haven't gone from permie to contract if that's what you're asking?

[kingcook]

I'm a contractor operating a limited company. Always taken a cautious approach to IR35 - contract reviews etc. so am as confident as I can be that all my contracts are outwith IR35.

I've been asked by my current recruitment agency to provide references for the last 12 months.

The thing that bothers me is that the form I've been asked to fill out refers to "employment references", with fields like "Date of employment", "line manager" etc.

Could this be seen as (incorrect) evidence that I've been in an employment relationship and therefore inside IR35 if I fill it out? Or am I just being really really pedantic??

Appreciate any input that anyone can give.

Your "current" recruitment agency.

This implies that you already have a contract with them and have been working on client side, yes? no?

[SteelyDan]

Company name = YourCo
Date of employment = date you started
Line manager = N/A

In order to get anywhere with the agency reference request, I don't think you'll get away with the above.
They will want to know for which organisation you provided services, and the dates to/from, plus a contact name (or previous agency contact) in order to verify what you have already told the agency, or what they have seen on your CV. I'm guessing your CV listed client organisation and NOT 'your-co'?
I wouldn't get too precious about the 'employment' thing, although reading some of the tripe on here, you have every right to be paranoid.

[northernladuk]

"Or am I just being really really pedantic??"

I think the word you're looking for is paranoid...

^^ This.

There is a huge difference between IR35 and lazy agents that can't be arsed to create a new form.

[DirtyDog]

Company name = YourCo
Date of employment = date you started
Line manager = N/A