P11d and Self assessment

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

It's wholly and exclusively for the business - you wouldn't need it if you weren't in business. Therefore no BIK.

I know this.

I'm talking about when the membership is in your name but paid for by YourCo. In this case, HMRC clearly say that if the organisation isn't on their list, then it should be treated as a BIK with Class 1 NI. It's there in black and white.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/exb/a...scriptions.htm

My argument is that in this case it would be eligible for a CT reduction like any other salary or benefit payment.

[SteelyDan]

I have 3 expenses on my P11d: travel, entertainment, and professional fees

Travel and entertainment were classed as "Taxable payments"; and
Professional fees were classed as "Non-class 1A items"

Which items do I need to include in my self assessment?
Only the "Taxable payments", or all 3 expenses?

Thanks for your help!

1. Why are you worrying about this crap?
2. Why are you asking ppl on a forum for advice on this?
3. Why aren't you asking your accountant?

[DirtyDog]

I'm aware that it's not allowable for CT if in the company name but if it's being provided as an employee benefit because it's I'm the employees name (and attracts a BIK charge as a result) then I would have thought it would be allowable for CT (I asked a similar question recently about company vans which have no real business justification other than to provide to an employee as a benefit! which was enough to satisfy the "wholly and exclusively" test for business expenses).

It's wholly and exclusively for the business - you wouldn't need it if you weren't in business. Therefore no BIK.

To be allowable for CT, there is an approved list from HMRC of professional bodies. PCG is not on the approved list, because to get on the list they would need to disclose a list of members, which they (quite rightly) did not want to do.

[Contreras]

I'm aware that it's not allowable for CT if in the company name but if it's being provided as an employee benefit because it's I'm the employees name (and attracts a BIK charge as a result) then I would have thought it would be allowable for CT (I asked a similar question recently about company vans which have no real business justification other than to provide to an employee as a benefit! which was enough to satisfy the "wholly and exclusively" test for business expenses).

As I said, the rationale for the position on CT/BiK is on the PCG site somewhere. It's to do with PCG not wanting to release a membership list to HMRC. Also, it's only an opinion.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

The standard line is that it's not deductible against CT but does not incur BiK charge either. The guidance and background rationale is on the PCG site if you can be rsd to look for it. Opinions vary however. My accountant didn't treat it differently from any other company expense and I didn't see fit to query him on that.

I'm aware that it's not allowable for CT if in the company name but if it's being provided as an employee benefit because it's I'm the employees name (and attracts a BIK charge as a result) then I would have thought it would be allowable for CT (I asked a similar question recently about company vans which have no real business justification other than to provide to an employee as a benefit! which was enough to satisfy the "wholly and exclusively" test for business expenses).

[Contreras]

I'm curious...it's been discussed on here many times before that the PCG membership, if paid for by the company, is not allowable for corporation tax as it's not on the HMRC list. If the PCG invoice is in the company name, I assume this doesn't have to be reported on your P11d and there is no NIC to pay?

OTOH, if the PCG membership is the your own name but paid for by YourCo (so YourCo pays for your subscription on *your* behalf), then according to [1] it's a taxable benefit and should be put through the payroll and Class 1 NICs are due. In this situation, wouldn't the fact that it's a taxable benefit to the employee (and put through the payroll) mean that it is deductible for corporation tax for YourCo?

The standard line is that it's not deductible against CT but does not incur BiK charge either. The guidance and background rationale is on the PCG site if you can be rsd to look for it. Opinions vary however. My accountant didn't treat it differently from any other company expense and I didn't see fit to query him on that.

[vwdan]

Edited because I can't read.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Interesting...you don't say who the professional body is so I'm assuming its one that's on HMRC's list and therefore there is no tax/NI to pay.

I'm curious...it's been discussed on here many times before that the PCG membership, if paid for by the company, is not allowable for corporation tax as it's not on the HMRC list. If the PCG invoice is in the company name, I assume this doesn't have to be reported on your P11d and there is no NIC to pay?

OTOH, if the PCG membership is the your own name but paid for by YourCo (so YourCo pays for your subscription on *your* behalf), then according to [1] it's a taxable benefit and should be put through the payroll and Class 1 NICs are due. In this situation, wouldn't the fact that it's a taxable benefit to the employee (and put through the payroll) mean that it is deductible for corporation tax for YourCo?

[1] HM Revenue & Customs: Subscriptions and professional fees

[imi138]

Hi all

Thanks for the replies. You have been very helpful

The professional fees were paid by the company on my behalf - they are annual subscription fees to retain membership to a professional body

Thanks again

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I have 3 expenses on my P11d: travel, entertainment, and professional fees

Travel and entertainment were classed as "Taxable payments"; and
Professional fees were classed as "Non-class 1A items"

Which items do I need to include in my self assessment?
Only the "Taxable payments", or all 3 expenses?

Thanks for your help!

Out of interest, what are the "professional fees"? If its something that the company should have paid for, but you paid for it on its behalf (i.e. the invoice was to the company but you paid it) then its likely it shouldn't appear on your P11d at all.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Is your travel taxable? Mine isn't.

The point is that under employee expenses and benefits legislation, business travel payments are strictly taxable. That's why they have to go on box N on your P11d. If they were exempt, they wouldn't have to go on the P11d. However relief is available under income tax legislation which is why you can claim the equivalent amount through your SAR.

It's annoying, but I suppose that's why HMRC allow dispensations (incidentally, I wonder how easy it is for a one-person contractor company to get dispensations if they can show that almost all of their expenses are business travel).

[northernladuk]

I have 3 expenses on my P11d: travel, entertainment, and professional fees

Travel and entertainment were classed as "Taxable payments"; and
Professional fees were classed as "Non-class 1A items"

Which items do I need to include in my self assessment?
Only the "Taxable payments", or all 3 expenses?

Thanks for your help!

Ever wondered if there is something serious you are missing and getting an accountant might be a good idea?

[Martin at NixonWilliams]

I have 3 expenses on my P11d: travel, entertainment, and professional fees

Travel and entertainment were classed as "Taxable payments"; and
Professional fees were classed as "Non-class 1A items"

Which items do I need to include in my self assessment?
Only the "Taxable payments", or all 3 expenses?

Thanks for your help!

All three of the expenses should be included in the 'employment benefits' section of the employment page (boxes 9-16). This section alone makes them taxable.

Assuming the expenses are wholly and exclusively for business purposes, the same expenses should be entered in the 'employment expenses' section of the employment page (boxes 17-20). They are then offset with the amounts entered above, making them non-taxable.

The above assumes the professional subscription is paid for by the company. If the professional subscription is paid for by the employee and it relates to the employment, it should be entered in box 19 only.

I hope this helps.

Martin

[Sausage Surprise]

Is your travel taxable? Mine isn't.
You usually put the full amount on the SA (online) then take it off again further through the process. Presuming it's all non taxable and wholly done on behalf of the business, etc.

[imi138]

I have 3 expenses on my P11d: travel, entertainment, and professional fees

Travel and entertainment were classed as "Taxable payments"; and
Professional fees were classed as "Non-class 1A items"

Which items do I need to include in my self assessment?
Only the "Taxable payments", or all 3 expenses?

Thanks for your help!