Reply to: Tax deduction for meals provided on employers premises (home office)

[Clare@InTouch]

So a "field engineer" would be able to claim for a Lunch at a Petrol Station as they are not at permanent site right?

You can have a whole area deemed to be a permanent workplace in some circumstances, so not necessarily.

[eek]

So a "field engineer" would be able to claim for a Lunch at a Petrol Station as they are not at permanent site right?

why are you asking in this thread?

[CloudWalker]

So a "field engineer" would be able to claim for a Lunch at a Petrol Station as they are not at permanent site right?

[Wanderer]

What could possible go wrong?... Your accountant may refuse to prepare the accounts. An HMRC inspection may go into more detail than normal, costing your time (and possibly accountancy fees), or your card is marked and further visits follow. If you're really lucky, you achieve fame and notoriety with YourCo v HMRC published as case history within the HMRC guidance itself.

I remember my accountant giving me the written guidance on what to claim and I asked a few stoopid noobie questions about expenses. She then said something I'll never forget. "You can claim anything you want but if you get investigated and found wanting then you will have to pay the tax, plus interest and a penalty of up to 100% if you knew you did something wrong". Her definition of something wrong was claiming for something that she said I shouldn't claim for.

In the end I chose a quiet life and just stuck with the well tried and tested expense-able things which are quite generous compared to being a permie. Keep it simple and get on with earning money the old fashioned way and don't go spending money you wouldn't normally spend just because "the company is paying for it".

[northernladuk]

What could possible go wrong?... Your accountant may refuse to prepare the accounts. An HMRC inspection may go into more detail than normal, costing your time (and possibly accountancy fees), or your card is marked and further visits follow. If you're really lucky, you achieve fame and notoriety with YourCo v HMRC published as case history within the HMRC guidance itself, but still look like a tosser on a popular contracting forum.

FTFY

[Contreras]

My interpretation of the subsidised workplace meal rules is that it would be allowable as long as you meet the criteria outlined here:

EIM21671 - Particular benefits: subsidised meals: canteen meals

What you are forgetting is that the HMRC guidance is just that. It's not the law, it's interpretation of the law and an often poorly worded one at that. You can claim anything you like if you're prepared to argue the case in court.

The Judge will decide if it's a valid business expense, not you or HMRC.

I'm not with the "it only saves 20% so why bother" brigade. If it's incurred wholly as a result of business then I'll claim it. But what you're doing here is trying to mould the guidance to fit a (hypothetical) situation that it was never intended to.

What could possible go wrong?... Your accountant may refuse to prepare the accounts. An HMRC inspection may go into more detail than normal, costing your time (and possibly accountancy fees), or your card is marked and further visits follow. If you're really lucky, you achieve fame and notoriety with YourCo v HMRC published as case history within the HMRC guidance itself.

[northernladuk]

Its taken you a while to adopt my new policy but its nice to see you have agreed to it.

Its fun (and longer term will probably be even more fun)..

Still hurts to type it though

[eek]

Yes it is. Yes you can.

Thread closed.

Its taken you a while to adopt my new policy but its nice to see you have agreed to it.

Its fun (and longer term will probably be even more fun)..

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

can we have one of those trap doors that Mr Burns used on the Simpsons that will just send people straight to HMRC when they come up with this sort of thing?

[SueEllen]

Yes it is. Yes you can.

Thread closed.

Another "Yes" post.

[northernladuk]

Would that be allowable? Would you put it through the business?

Yes it is. Yes you can.

Thread closed.

[malvolio]

I thought the BIM pages were for self-employed/sole traders whose rules around things like this were a lot stricter, not employers (covered by the EIM pages). If what you quoted above applied to employers, the second paragraph would rule out meal claims when travelling to a temporary workplace too.

You really don't get it, do you.

Expenses for temporary workplaces are because they are temporary (the clue is in the name) and you're not expected to be able to use the food at home and so have necessarily incurred an additional expense in the pursuit of your trade. That's also why taking sandwiches isn't allowable, but let's not complicate things.

Your fallacy is exactly the same as the EBT users' one: it's not that the rules aren't there, it's whether or not they apply to your circumstances.

Getting bored now.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

From HMRC: "The cost of food, drink and accommodation is not in general an expense incurred wholly and exclusively for business purposes, since everyone must eat in order to live. They are (either wholly or partly) normal costs of living incurred by all and not as a result of trading, see BIM37900 onwards.

Where such costs are disallowable they cannot be apportioned to allow extra costs incurred from the necessity of lunching away from home or the place of business. The attempt to apportion betraying the essential duality of purpose"

If you are at home you would eat lunch regardless of whether you were working or not ergo the cost is not allowable

I thought the BIM pages were for self-employed/sole traders whose rules around things like this were a lot stricter, not employers (covered by the EIM pages). If what you quoted above applied to employers, the second paragraph would rule out meal claims when travelling to a temporary workplace too.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

From HMRC: "The cost of food, drink and accommodation is not in general an expense incurred wholly and exclusively for business purposes, since everyone must eat in order to live. They are (either wholly or partly) normal costs of living incurred by all and not as a result of trading, see BIM37900 onwards.

Where such costs are disallowable they cannot be apportioned to allow extra costs incurred from the necessity of lunching away from home or the place of business. The attempt to apportion betraying the essential duality of purpose"

If you are at home you would eat lunch regardless of whether you were working or not ergo the cost is not allowable

[northernladuk]

Sure, that's a reasonable argument. It depends how much you have to worry about if they looked into your accounts though, doesn't it? If your books are good and you have no IR35 worries, then I don't see the problem.

But you have to think about these things pragmatically, not bend the situation to suit your needs. It isn't not you that will see the problem, it is HMRC. They set these rules and they will be very good at seeing through them. If you have blatantly broken both the spirit and (IMO) the letter of the rule you immediately start of on the defence which is the worst place to be.

Also if this was as clean cut as you seem to think do you not think it would be widely advertised on all the expenses literature and accountants guides. The fact it is not speaks volumes to start off with.

If you want to take the piss out of your accounts as your comment would suggest then why not go the whole hog and actually do something that is worth something to you. Not something that is going to save a pound or two a day.