Reply to: Providing emergency contact details to the company you work for - IR35 flag?

[Wanderer]

I am actually a spotty faced 45 year old that lives at home and is bullied by everyone.

What??!! Are you saying you look nothing like your avatar? You've seriously ruined it for me now.

HMRC decided that access to onsite nurse and first aid was a inside IR35 pointer....
...argument blown out of the water when client confirmed anyone taken ill on site would received first aid from the nurse, including visiting HMRC inspectors.

good shot!

Having opponents come out with dumb arguments like this is great. Just let them go on about it for a while then hit them right between the eyes with a reference to the law and a withering look. As they are reeling from that, ask them if they are going to waste any more time asking stupid questions or if we can now consider the case closed.

[d000hg]

It is lucky for the OP that a lack of common sense isn't an IR35 pointer...

Not giving an emergency contact to someone because of IR35? Give me strength.....

He will presumably take the business responsibility of paying up when they sue him because he broke prod and couldn't be contacted.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I recall, from one of their courses, Accountax had similar come up with HMRC on a IR35 case in the early days. HMRC decided that access to onsite nurse and first aid was a inside IR35 pointer....


...argument blown out of the water when client confirmed anyone taken ill on site would received first aid from the nurse, including visiting HMRC inspectors.

From a H&S perspective contact details for a contractor on site isn't unreasonable, and its not going to effect the key status indicators.

Not to say of course, some HMRC minion wouldn't try and bring it in, but it would never stand up at tribunal.

I wonder how many would be tempted to take HMR&C inspector on site and arrange a little tiny 'accident'

[SueEllen]

I recall, from one of their courses, Accountax had similar come up with HMRC on a IR35 case in the early days. HMRC decided that access to onsite nurse and first aid was a inside IR35 pointer....


...argument blown out of the water when client confirmed anyone taken ill on site would received first aid from the nurse, including visiting HMRC inspectors.

From a H&S perspective contact details for a contractor on site isn't unreasonable, and its not going to effect the key status indicators.

Not to say of course, some HMRC minion wouldn't try and bring it in, but it would never stand up at tribunal.

The HSE provides some booklets available as downloadable PDFs explaining the legislation.

A copy of one of those would easily blow a stupid minions' arguments out of the water.

[northernladuk]

Nah, he's simply following my original model. Just he's not very good at it...

High praise indeed...

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

I recall, from one of their courses, Accountax had similar come up with HMRC on a IR35 case in the early days. HMRC decided that access to onsite nurse and first aid was a inside IR35 pointer....


...argument blown out of the water when client confirmed anyone taken ill on site would received first aid from the nurse, including visiting HMRC inspectors.

From a H&S perspective contact details for a contractor on site isn't unreasonable, and its not going to effect the key status indicators.

Not to say of course, some HMRC minion wouldn't try and bring it in, but it would never stand up at tribunal.

[northernladuk]

That bit in bold is where you went wrong.

And replying to your client before asking for advice.

And not using some common sense.

If you had come and said:

"I've been asked by client co to provide emergancy contact details. Has anyone else come accross this and could it be regarded as a pointer to being iside IR35?"

You'd have got polite and supportive replies (probably) even from NLUK.

Nope, still a pretty daft question. Clients have H&S, they are legally required to ensure the saftey and well being of everyone on site... everyone.. permies, vistors, contractors and even the Queen. Providing this type of info where possibly even legal is for safety and peace of mind, primarily yours. Nothing to do with running your business.

It's akin to asking if a contractor has to go out and stand in the car park when the fire alarm sounds... and before the OP asks, you do.

Can't wait till the OP get's a load of documents regarding the clients IS policy that he has to sign...

[northernladuk]

Thanks - I'll look at the other exemptions when I get a chance.

@Malvolio - I understand what you're saying, but for those who are less knowledgable having someone give helpful advice in a considerate manner goes a long way. I've lurked on these boards for a while now and NorthernladUK's tone is very much that of a keyboard warrior. If he's like that IRL then the likelihood is that he is the very type of person that made the decision for me to go freelance a simple one

This is an internet forum, completely different from RL. I am actually a spotty faced 45 year old that lives at home and is bullied by everyone. I see your posts but know deep down in real life you are not as daft as your post makes you out to be.

[DaveB]

I'm assuming this is, but I've just been asked for the company I contract for to provide emergency contact details. I've replied stating that as is something I deem that only an employee would be required to do, and that given I am a business I am not required to do so as I do not fit the definition of an employee. Just wondered if anyone else has encountered this?

That bit in bold is where you went wrong.

And replying to your client before asking for advice.

And not using some common sense.

If you had come and said:

"I've been asked by client co to provide emergancy contact details. Has anyone else come accross this and could it be regarded as a pointer to being iside IR35?"

You'd have got polite and supportive replies (probably) even from NLUK.

[malvolio]

@Malvolio - I understand what you're saying, but for those who are less knowledgable having someone give helpful advice in a considerate manner goes a long way. I've lurked on these boards for a while now and NorthernladUK's tone is very much that of a keyboard warrior. If he's like that IRL then the likelihood is that he is the very type of person that made the decision for me to go freelance a simple one

Nah, he's simply following my original model. Just he's not very good at it...

[DigitalUser]

Just a quick tip - anything that comes under the Healthy and Safety at Work legislation is exempt. After all you don't want someone running you down in the company car park or to be electrocuted if you plug your phone charger in.

There are more exempts but you can investigate those for yourself.

Thanks - I'll look at the other exemptions when I get a chance.

@Malvolio - I understand what you're saying, but for those who are less knowledgable having someone give helpful advice in a considerate manner goes a long way. I've lurked on these boards for a while now and NorthernladUK's tone is very much that of a keyboard warrior. If he's like that IRL then the likelihood is that he is the very type of person that made the decision for me to go freelance a simple one

[SueEllen]

I've been freelance for 6 months and I wanted a second opinion around a topic (IR35) that whilst I know a fair amount about, I don't claim to know all the details. Apologies if I've demonstrated 'a clear lack of common sense,' but in future you I suggest you show a little more courtesy to those around you, keyboard warrior.

Just a quick tip - anything that comes under the Healthy and Safety at Work legislation is exempt. After all you don't want someone running you down in the company car park or to be electrocuted if you plug your phone charger in.

There are more exempts but you can investigate those for yourself.

[malvolio]

I've been freelance for 6 months and I wanted a second opinion around a topic (IR35) that whilst I know a fair amount about, I don't claim to know all the details. Apologies if I've demonstrated 'a clear lack of common sense,' but in future you I suggest you show a little more courtesy to those around you, keyboard warrior.

I think perhaps you don't know as much about IR35 as you might think. One simple rule; if some "Do this" rule applies to everyone, it can't be used as a differentiator for IR35 or anything else.

As I'm sure you already know, there are three pointers for IR35, D&C being the one this would come under. Except as only fule kno it doesn't.

[DigitalUser]

Posts like this show who is a contractor, understands their responsibilities, relationship with their clients and work like a business..... and those that just pretend..

I've been freelance for 6 months and I wanted a second opinion around a topic (IR35) that whilst I know a fair amount about, I don't claim to know all the details. Apologies if I've demonstrated 'a clear lack of common sense,' but in future you I suggest you show a little more courtesy to those around you, keyboard warrior.

[northernladuk]

Posts like this show who is a contractor, understands their responsibilities, relationship with their clients and work like a business..... and those that just pretend..