Reply to: Self Billing invoices.

[Wanderer]

Hmm... Subtle - hadn't thought of taking that line, but it only works if you consider you aren't providing a continuing service but are selling discrete deliverables every n days. Which strictly speaking I'm not, and nor are you if you are getting paid regularly by timesheet.

The invoices I raise when I bill clients are sequentially numbered. The invoices my client's raise to me through self billing are sequentially numbered. In my book keeping system I make an entry for each billing period and reconcile this against the self billing invoice when it arrives.

In order to deal with the different numbering series from different clients, I just prefix a code to the invoices to distinguish between invoices from different clients in my book keeping system. I guess that another way to do it would be to allocate your own invoice sequence number to each self billing invoice as it arrives.

I really don't think it's all that complicated.

[malvolio]

Your invoices would still be sequentially numbered - your method of payment into the company simply changes from Invoicing to Sales. Moving to another agency that doesn't use SB will simply start up your invoice numbers from where you left off.

Anyway, my accountant was very clear how they want me to manage this aspect so that's how I'm doing it now.

Hmm... Subtle - hadn't thought of taking that line, but it only works if you consider you aren't providing a continuing service but are selling discrete deliverables every n days. Which strictly speaking I'm not, and nor are you if you are getting paid regularly by timesheet.

[cojak]

Does that include the legal rquirement that all your invoices are sequentially numbered...?

Your invoices would still be sequentially numbered - your method of payment into the company simply changes from Invoicing to Sales. Moving to another agency that doesn't use SB will simply start up your invoice numbers from where you left off.

Anyway, my accountant was very clear how they want me to manage this aspect so that's how I'm doing it now.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Im surprised you say that Lisa. AFAIA, creating an invoice irrespective of whether you send it or not, create a new tax point which not only muddies the water but, also contravenes the agreement between agency and hmrc regarding self billing?

Anyway, I dont bother. I really dont see the point of creating any other document. Every time I've been on SB, the invoice \ remittance \ self billing 'document' contains all the information required. Neither does creating your own invoice put you on a stronger footing for IR35 so, I just dont get it.

We need an audit trail for one - we work with about 2000 agencies and clients and to raise invoices for some and not for others would leave us with an incomplete audit trail. Also agencies' self-billing invoices have been known to be incorrect - our invoice is generated from timesheet information provided by our employees - so any discrepancies have to be investigated to make sure that the amount we pay out is correct.

[malvolio]

Im surprised you say that Lisa. AFAIA, creating an invoice irrespective of whether you send it or not, create a new tax point which not only muddies the water but, also contravenes the agreement between agency and hmrc regarding self billing?

Anyway, I dont bother. I really dont see the point of creating any other document. Every time I've been on SB, the invoice \ remittance \ self billing 'document' contains all the information required. Neither does creating your own invoice put you on a stronger footing for IR35 so, I just dont get it.

Does that include the legal rquirement that all your invoices are sequentially numbered...?

[BolshieBastard]

*BUMP*

So what was the general consensus of opinion (Cojak did your accountant get back to you)

The way I read, its OK to raise your own invoice for your records but don't send them to the agent, just reconcile yours and their remittance when they send you one?

Yep that should cover it IMHO - that's what we do anyway

Im surprised you say that Lisa. AFAIA, creating an invoice irrespective of whether you send it or not, create a new tax point which not only muddies the water but, also contravenes the agreement between agency and hmrc regarding self billing?

Anyway, I dont bother. I really dont see the point of creating any other document. Every time I've been on SB, the invoice \ remittance \ self billing 'document' contains all the information required. Neither does creating your own invoice put you on a stronger footing for IR35 so, I just dont get it.

[cojak]

*BUMP*

So what was the general consensus of opinion (Cojak did your accountant get back to you)

The way I read, its OK to raise your own invoice for your records but don't send them to the agent, just reconcile yours and their remittance when they send you one?

Yep, that's what she told me raise but don't send then reconcile.

But I recon that using the Sales method is just as good.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

*BUMP*

So what was the general consensus of opinion (Cojak did your accountant get back to you)

The way I read, its OK to raise your own invoice for your records but don't send them to the agent, just reconcile yours and their remittance when they send you one?

Yep that should cover it IMHO - that's what we do anyway

[SimonMac]

*BUMP*

So what was the general consensus of opinion (Cojak did your accountant get back to you)

The way I read, its OK to raise your own invoice for your records but don't send them to the agent, just reconcile yours and their remittance when they send you one?

[BolshieBastard]

Ok if you are happy to have your payslips- sorry self billinginvoices generated for you in a regular weekly/monthly fashion carry on.

Why do you make them out to be payslips as if SB somehow means you're an employee!? Go take a look at hmrc's page about SB. You'll see they dont refer to 'payslips' in anyway shape or form.

Not in isolation but as part of the overall picture, yes I do. Anything I can do to distinguish myself as a business, such as a website and business cards I will do. Every little helps.

Again, before spouting BS, go take a look at hmrc's page about SB. SB is a clear distinction between an employee and 'payslips' and a business arrangement.

Other than that, very well done!

[northernladuk]

Ok if you are happy to have your payslips- sorry self billinginvoices generated for you in a regular weekly/monthly fashion carry on.



Not in isolation but as part of the overall picture, yes I do. Anything I can do to distinguish myself as a business, such as a website and business cards I will do. Every little helps.

I have to say that is a very little thing indeed and would argue it's total use is zero. With the amount of automation and process optimization going on it would be nigh on impossible to use it as a case either way. It is just an easier method of doing business cheaper and faster. Waving an invoice around to try prove your a business is even beyond my level of cautiousness.

[No2politics]

Self Billing invoices.

SB is fully acknowledged by hmrc where the arrangements meet their criteria for such. Therefore, yes, a legitimate business may use it.
.

Ok if you are happy to have your payslips- sorry self billinginvoices generated for you in a regular weekly/monthly fashion carry on.

Do you serious think having your company logo on an invoice you raise carries more weight as far as hmrc are concerned as an SB recognised by them? Really!?
.

Not in isolation but as part of the overall picture, yes I do. Anything I can do to distinguish myself as a business, such as a website and business cards I will do. Every little helps.

[malvolio]

Which means that I don't have to correct my previous invoices.

The HMRC website is VERY clear on this point though Mal (not allowing duplicate tax points). You can bring money into your account via Sales rather than Invoice Receipt.

The Tax Point for the supply of continuing services is the one stated on the invoice. I make my invoices align to the one on the agency's RA/Invoice-R-Us. Using cash accounting helps, of course.

[cojak]

(and like any good newb, I've just asked my accountant - I'll let you know what she says.... )

[cojak]

Found it...
HM Revenue & Customs

5.1 What details must I include on a VAT invoice?

You must show the following details on any VAT invoices you issue:

• a sequential number based on one or more series which uniquely identifies the document
• ...

But further down the page...!

5.5 Do I always have to issue an invoice?

No. You do not have to issue a VAT invoice to a registered person if:

• your customer operates a self-billing arrangement or you issue authenticated receipts. Notice 700/62 Self Billing and Notice 708 Buildings and Construction provide full details.
• you make a gift of goods on which VAT is due.
• you sell goods under one of the VAT second-hand schemes. You will find details of the special invoices you have to use in Notice 718 Margin Schemes for second-hand goods, works of art, antiques and collectors’ items.
• your invoice is only for exempt or zero rated sales within the UK

So sorry Mal you're wrong. (Although it does grate a little that self-billing was put there for the construction industry...)

And creating but not issuing is so untidy - I'm quite happy now to reconcile income/Sales to SB invoice.