Reply to: Payroll and VAT software for electronic submissions?

[willendure]

Got GnuCash all set up. Feels like a breath of fresh air compared to these online tools and especially QuickBooks. Its just so simple and straightforward and there is no UI lag as you get with webapps. QB was particularly "spinny" in its operation and the back button never quite took you where you wanted. My data is also on my computer and encrypted safely - never quite know what online accounting systems might be doing with your sensitive data, and password hacks are not uncommon.

Also HMRC Basic PAYE - was a bit of a PITA to set up on Debian, but now have it running. It feels more reliable to submit through that and then, as you say, get the confirmation email than use some 3rd party software to verify things.

I feel so much more in control of understanding my business finances and its nice to feel that I have software that I can rely on, won't do mysterious stuff, won't change unless I decide to upgrade it, and does not charge me a monthly fee.

[jamesbrown]

In this case I filed the PAYE on 6th March, QB appeared to connect to HMRC and send the submission in, and show with a tick or whatever that its all good, job done.

It isn't really "job done" until you get an e-mail notification from the gateway accepting each of your EPS and FPS and you should know this. Turn all notifications on for your gateway account and routinely check your HMRC and CH accounts. Then it's closer to "job done". You may have done if for 17 years, but perhaps you got complacent or perhaps you were lucky for 17 years, idk. Either way, third-party software is there to make things simpler, it is not infallible. You just need to catch mistakes in time, which means you need to trust, but verify.

[willendure]

I always used the following:

• Excel spreadsheet to track income & expenditure & calculate VAT
• Excel spreadsheet to calculate PAYE
• Submit PAYE and create P60 etc via the HMRC BPT tool (one advantage is that it has a SQLite database so if you're vaguely competent with relational databases you can use a tool like DB Browser to look at the data & modify if needed)
• Submit VAT using the free https://mytaxdigital.co.uk/ service, once the HMRC online submission was no longer available. You can either link an Excel sheet into it or just type the numbers in the boxes like the old days
• An accountant to do annual company return and accounts

Thats great! I will be doing exactly the same, except for the first 2 points about Excel - I will use gnucash instead for that part.

[willendure]

You wouldn't have that issue if your submissions were filed in good time and your gateway notifications were set correctly, as the e-mail notes. You should expect software to not work sometimes (although I've personally never experienced a failure with FA) - belt and braces. As I noted above, your expectations probably aren't aligned with being able to do your own accounts. Something "simple" is an accountant.

Managed just fine for 17 years thank you very much!

In this case I filed the PAYE on 6th March, QB appeared to connect to HMRC and send the submission in, and show with a tick or whatever that its all good, job done.

Now I come to do my end of year stuff and generate P60, and I see 3 warnings on the last 3 three submissions. So I tried to re-submit them, but it gives an error saying they are already submitted! The 2nd and 3rd one I can't do anything with because the 1st one is "stuck" in QB. That one does seem to have gone in though, its actually just the 3rd one that is missing. Hopefully I can mark the first 2 somehow as having been done, so QB will let me do the missing one. Otherwise its going to be Basic PAYE tools that I have to do it through.

The story is that about half way through the tax year QB introduced a completely new payroll system without any wanring, they just switched you over to it. All my payroll information for the year was gone! At first I was alarmed by this and complained but they said no look, if you drill down here through these menus you can find a .zip file with all the info in it, literally a dump of the XML of the submissions so far that year. So instead of debuging this pile of crap, and then gracefully migrating all their customers data over to the new system, and verifying everything, they just dumped it on their users.

I don't know if any of you ever used QB, it was never a great tool and plenty annoying but it has been ok for the 7 years or so I used it, until the recent "upgrades". If you check their online help forums you can see plenty requests about fixing the broken payroll and the crappy answers they give like - make sure your login credentials are correct and instructions on how to set them, except the instructions are wrong and describe menu options that are not even there. Its just a dumpster fire now. My guess is they hired some offshore development teams on the cheap to do the upgrade work, and serves them right if all their customers leave and they go bankrupt, I really hope that is what happens to them because they deserve it.

[Snooky]

I think I am just going to use Basic PAYE Tools for now! I am hoping that will also let me see what the state of my submissions for the 24/25 year that Quickbooks has messed up, and close that out and generate the P60.

I always used the following:

• Excel spreadsheet to track income & expenditure & calculate VAT
• Excel spreadsheet to calculate PAYE
• Submit PAYE and create P60 etc via the HMRC BPT tool (one advantage is that it has a SQLite database so if you're vaguely competent with relational databases you can use a tool like DB Browser to look at the data & modify if needed)
• Submit VAT using the free https://mytaxdigital.co.uk/ service, once the HMRC online submission was no longer available. You can either link an Excel sheet into it or just type the numbers in the boxes like the old days
• An accountant to do annual company return and accounts

[jamesbrown]

You wouldn't have that issue if your submissions were filed in good time and your gateway notifications were set correctly, as the e-mail notes. You should expect software to not work sometimes (although I've personally never experienced a failure with FA) - belt and braces. As I noted above, your expectations probably aren't aligned with being able to do your own accounts. Something "simple" is an accountant.

[willendure]

FFS, Quickbooks seemed to show that this all went through. Its totally screwed it all up. Bastards.

--

Message type:Non filing noticeMessage details


We have sent you this message because our records show that you haven't sent all of the submissions that we expected for the previous tax month.

This is not a penalty notice but it is warning you that you may be charged a penalty.

You must send a Full Payment Submission (FPS) each time you pay your employees or pension recipients.

If you didn't pay any employees within the tax month indicated, you should let HMRC know by sending a no payment Employer Payment Summary (EPS) by the 19th of this month.

If you have sent all your returns or you have notified us on an FPS or EPS in the last five days that you no longer employ anyone or your scheme has ceased, you don't need to contact us.

We issue non file messages shortly after the tax month end to remind you to make a submission to avoid a specified charge and a potential filing penalty.

If you are charged a filing penalty you can appeal against that penalty if you think it is incorrect or you had a reasonable excuse for the delay. The penalty notice will include information on how to appeal, however the quickest way is to appeal online. To do this you should select the 'Appeal a Penalty' link from your PAYE online account, when you receive a penalty notice. Sending your appeal online means you will receive an immediate electronic response.

If you haven't already done so, we recommend that you set up email reminders and notifications using the options available in PAYE Online.
Tax period

Period Ending:05/04/2025

[willendure]

Its not about saving money, its just about having a system that I can understand and feel in control of. Its only simple double entry bookeeping after all. I know how to set up accounts to track PAYE and VAT because I did it that way for at least 10 years. I guess I am a bit scarred by the QuickBooks experience, as although it worked ok, I never really felt comfortable with it in the way I did when I managed my accounts more directly. Also gnucash runs on my own computer, it won't change on me unexpectedly unlike online services. That is what is causing me a headache right now - I just don't have time to spend learning a new system, I just need something simple that I can trust, and come back to thinking about it at a later date when I do have time.

[willendure]

I thought you wanted something that would do PAYE FPS too?

I think I am just going to use Basic PAYE Tools for now! I am hoping that will also let me see what the state of my submissions for the 24/25 year that Quickbooks has messed up, and close that out and generate the P60.

[sadkingbilly]

Reading his posts, he wants free software, but at the same time is happy to tell us about the amount he stashes away in crypto each month.

I suspect he needs an accountant, unless he's trying to perform some sort of slight of hand with his bookkeeping that an accountant might refuse to do.

sleight

[WTFH]

If you think FA is "overly dumbed down" when you're seriously considering resorting to a spreadsheet and a separate tool for PAYE RTI and VAT etc. and talking about entering "4 fields 4 times a year", I think you probably need something much more dumbed down, like a full service accountant. It is quite easy to find the trial balance and other reports in FA and it is quite easy to add journal entries if you really want to look under the hood and edit things manually. Some of the automation is a PITA, but it's decent on the whole and you can control it to some degree. I suggest you don't really know what you want, other than to "save some money", which is probably why you need a full service accountant.

Reading his posts, he wants free software, but at the same time is happy to tell us about the amount he stashes away in crypto each month.

I suspect he needs an accountant, unless he's trying to perform some sort of slight of hand with his bookkeeping that an accountant might refuse to do.

[jamesbrown]

FreeAgent looks ok, but as mentioned above, it looks overly dumbed down. Certianly better than Quickbooks, just not sure I am ready to commit to it. I feel like the bedrock of an accounting system should be the raw accounts themselves and am wary of software that abstracts that away - yes, good to automate things, but no, bad to hide the source of truth and not provide access to operate at that level.

Its still high on my list of things to look into in more depth though.

If you think FA is "overly dumbed down" when you're seriously considering resorting to a spreadsheet and a separate tool for PAYE RTI and VAT etc. and talking about entering "4 fields 4 times a year", I think you probably need something much more dumbed down, like a full service accountant. It is quite easy to find the trial balance and other reports in FA and it is quite easy to add journal entries if you really want to look under the hood and edit things manually. Some of the automation is a PITA, but it's decent on the whole and you can control it to some degree. I suggest you don't really know what you want, other than to "save some money", which is probably why you need a full service accountant.

[ladymuck]

https://mytaxdigital.co.uk/

Thanks - for now, just something I can submit 4 fields to, 4 times a year looks perfect!

I thought you wanted something that would do PAYE FPS too?

[willendure]

This was my reply to a similar question last year: https://forums.contractoruk.com/acco...ml#post2994579

https://mytaxdigital.co.uk/

Thanks - for now, just something I can submit 4 fields to, 4 times a year looks perfect!

[willendure]

As I said, FA is free if you open a Mettle business account, which is hardly much effort. It solves all of your issues. Doing this in a spreadsheet or splitting across multiple tools is like punching yourself in the face. I mean, many of us will remember the SJD spreadsheet, which had its time, but that time was more than a decade ago.

FreeAgent looks ok, but as mentioned above, it looks overly dumbed down. Certianly better than Quickbooks, just not sure I am ready to commit to it. I feel like the bedrock of an accounting system should be the raw accounts themselves and am wary of software that abstracts that away - yes, good to automate things, but no, bad to hide the source of truth and not provide access to operate at that level.

Its still high on my list of things to look into in more depth though.